social media explorer

Well put Jason.

Well put Jason.

Well put Jason.

Well put Jason.

Well put Jason.

Well put Jason.

Totally agree. as far as I'm concerned Social Media is for networking. Networking lets me get to business colleagues and customers, but beyond that I still have to sell myself or my product. Nobody is going to buy my product just because I'm out there asking them how their day is going, or reading about them listening to the latest music CD. They're going to buy because I give them a reason to.

More people should read this article. Especially all those amateur SEO hotshots.

Totally agree. as far as I'm concerned Social Media is for networking. Networking lets me get to business colleagues and customers, but beyond that I still have to sell myself or my product. Nobody is going to buy my product just because I'm out there asking them how their day is going, or reading about them listening to the latest music CD. They're going to buy because I give them a reason to.

More people should read this article. Especially all those amateur SEO hotshots.

Totally agree. as far as I'm concerned Social Media is for networking. Networking lets me get to business colleagues and customers, but beyond that I still have to sell myself or my product. Nobody is going to buy my product just because I'm out there asking them how their day is going, or reading about them listening to the latest music CD. They're going to buy because I give them a reason to.

More people should read this article. Especially all those amateur SEO hotshots.

Totally agree. as far as I'm concerned Social Media is for networking. Networking lets me get to business colleagues and customers, but beyond that I still have to sell myself or my product. Nobody is going to buy my product just because I'm out there asking them how their day is going, or reading about them listening to the latest music CD. They're going to buy because I give them a reason to.

More people should read this article. Especially all those amateur SEO hotshots.

Totally agree. as far as I'm concerned Social Media is for networking. Networking lets me get to business colleagues and customers, but beyond that I still have to sell myself or my product. Nobody is going to buy my product just because I'm out there asking them how their day is going, or reading about them listening to the latest music CD. They're going to buy because I give them a reason to.

More people should read this article. Especially all those amateur SEO hotshots.

Totally agree. as far as I'm concerned Social Media is for networking. Networking lets me get to business colleagues and customers, but beyond that I still have to sell myself or my product. Nobody is going to buy my product just because I'm out there asking them how their day is going, or reading about them listening to the latest music CD. They're going to buy because I give them a reason to.

More people should read this article. Especially all those amateur SEO hotshots.

Totally agree. as far as I'm concerned Social Media is for networking. Networking lets me get to business colleagues and customers, but beyond that I still have to sell myself or my product. Nobody is going to buy my product just because I'm out there asking them how their day is going, or reading about them listening to the latest music CD. They're going to buy because I give them a reason to.

More people should read this article. Especially all those amateur SEO hotshots.

At first I thought I would disagree with this post, but once digested I actually agree (and talk about this stuff myself). When speaking to clients I do talk about “participate in the conversation,” “engage your customers,” and “talk with us not to us” but I also talk about using social media to drive business. I don't think the two types of thinking need to be mutually exclusive.

At first I thought I would disagree with this post, but once digested I actually agree (and talk about this stuff myself). When speaking to clients I do talk about “participate in the conversation,” “engage your customers,” and “talk with us not to us” but I also talk about using social media to drive business. I don't think the two types of thinking need to be mutually exclusive.

At first I thought I would disagree with this post, but once digested I actually agree (and talk about this stuff myself). When speaking to clients I do talk about “participate in the conversation,” “engage your customers,” and “talk with us not to us” but I also talk about using social media to drive business. I don't think the two types of thinking need to be mutually exclusive.

At first I thought I would disagree with this post, but once digested I actually agree (and talk about this stuff myself). When speaking to clients I do talk about “participate in the conversation,” “engage your customers,” and “talk with us not to us” but I also talk about using social media to drive business. I don't think the two types of thinking need to be mutually exclusive.

At first I thought I would disagree with this post, but once digested I actually agree (and talk about this stuff myself). When speaking to clients I do talk about “participate in the conversation,” “engage your customers,” and “talk with us not to us” but I also talk about using social media to drive business. I don't think the two types of thinking need to be mutually exclusive.

At first I thought I would disagree with this post, but once digested I actually agree (and talk about this stuff myself). When speaking to clients I do talk about “participate in the conversation,” “engage your customers,” and “talk with us not to us” but I also talk about using social media to drive business. I don't think the two types of thinking need to be mutually exclusive.

just true! we are mostly working for businesses and not charity nice read

just true! we are mostly working for businesses and not charity nice read

just true! we are mostly working for businesses and not charity nice read

just true! we are mostly working for businesses and not charity nice read

just true! we are mostly working for businesses and not charity nice read

just true! we are mostly working for businesses and not charity nice read

Interesting. Guess we have to go deeper with that topic. I was always telling people that in life we sell each other constantly – ideas. And every business transaction depends on transferring the ideas to each other. 1. Discover needs. 2. Fullfill them. 3. Make A Customer/Friend 4. Make A Sale 5. Repeat 2-4

A sale happens in a communication process. However if there is no need addressed in this communication process it freaking doesn't matter if it is social media or traditional advertising.

Social media just plays more with “social peer pressure” to often make people buy something because it makes them “look cool”, “hip”,”recognized”.

I think the overall thing with social media is that people get attention and feel acknowledged as human beings, not just as customers.

Interesting. Guess we have to go deeper with that topic. I was always telling people that in life we sell each other constantly – ideas. And every business transaction depends on transferring the ideas to each other. 1. Discover needs. 2. Fullfill them. 3. Make A Customer/Friend 4. Make A Sale 5. Repeat 2-4

A sale happens in a communication process. However if there is no need addressed in this communication process it freaking doesn't matter if it is social media or traditional advertising.

Social media just plays more with “social peer pressure” to often make people buy something because it makes them “look cool”, “hip”,”recognized”.

I think the overall thing with social media is that people get attention and feel acknowledged as human beings, not just as customers.

Interesting. Guess we have to go deeper with that topic. I was always telling people that in life we sell each other constantly – ideas. And every business transaction depends on transferring the ideas to each other. 1. Discover needs. 2. Fullfill them. 3. Make A Customer/Friend 4. Make A Sale 5. Repeat 2-4

A sale happens in a communication process. However if there is no need addressed in this communication process it freaking doesn't matter if it is social media or traditional advertising.

Social media just plays more with “social peer pressure” to often make people buy something because it makes them “look cool”, “hip”,”recognized”.

I think the overall thing with social media is that people get attention and feel acknowledged as human beings, not just as customers.

Interesting. Guess we have to go deeper with that topic. I was always telling people that in life we sell each other constantly – ideas. And every business transaction depends on transferring the ideas to each other. 1. Discover needs. 2. Fullfill them. 3. Make A Customer/Friend 4. Make A Sale 5. Repeat 2-4

A sale happens in a communication process. However if there is no need addressed in this communication process it freaking doesn't matter if it is social media or traditional advertising.

Social media just plays more with “social peer pressure” to often make people buy something because it makes them “look cool”, “hip”,”recognized”.

I think the overall thing with social media is that people get attention and feel acknowledged as human beings, not just as customers.

Interesting. Guess we have to go deeper with that topic. I was always telling people that in life we sell each other constantly – ideas. And every business transaction depends on transferring the ideas to each other. 1. Discover needs. 2. Fullfill them. 3. Make A Customer/Friend 4. Make A Sale 5. Repeat 2-4

A sale happens in a communication process. However if there is no need addressed in this communication process it freaking doesn't matter if it is social media or traditional advertising.

Social media just plays more with “social peer pressure” to often make people buy something because it makes them “look cool”, “hip”,”recognized”.

I think the overall thing with social media is that people get attention and feel acknowledged as human beings, not just as customers.

Interesting. Guess we have to go deeper with that topic. I was always telling people that in life we sell each other constantly – ideas. And every business transaction depends on transferring the ideas to each other. 1. Discover needs. 2. Fullfill them. 3. Make A Customer/Friend 4. Make A Sale 5. Repeat 2-4

A sale happens in a communication process. However if there is no need addressed in this communication process it freaking doesn't matter if it is social media or traditional advertising.

Social media just plays more with “social peer pressure” to often make people buy something because it makes them “look cool”, “hip”,”recognized”.

I think the overall thing with social media is that people get attention and feel acknowledged as human beings, not just as customers.

Thanks for the post Jason.

For business social media is (and should be) a tool to do things with. Those things can be diverse and different from business to business. Driving sales, increasing website traffic and increasing brand awareness are some easy and widely practised examples.

Whatever the goal it is vital to have some way to measure ROI in some form. I enjoy that challenge. It's all to easy to jump on board with no plan. That's where all the “join the conversation” guff gets used to cover up the cracks in a poor social media plan.

Conversations still matter. Effective engagement must respect the mores of the idiom, but talking for talking's sake doesn't benefit anyone.

Thanks for the post Jason.

For business social media is (and should be) a tool to do things with. Those things can be diverse and different from business to business. Driving sales, increasing website traffic and increasing brand awareness are some easy and widely practised examples.

Whatever the goal it is vital to have some way to measure ROI in some form. I enjoy that challenge. It's all to easy to jump on board with no plan. That's where all the “join the conversation” guff gets used to cover up the cracks in a poor social media plan.

Conversations still matter. Effective engagement must respect the mores of the idiom, but talking for talking's sake doesn't benefit anyone.

Thanks for the post Jason.

For business social media is (and should be) a tool to do things with. Those things can be diverse and different from business to business. Driving sales, increasing website traffic and increasing brand awareness are some easy and widely practised examples.

Whatever the goal it is vital to have some way to measure ROI in some form. I enjoy that challenge. It's all to easy to jump on board with no plan. That's where all the “join the conversation” guff gets used to cover up the cracks in a poor social media plan.

Conversations still matter. Effective engagement must respect the mores of the idiom, but talking for talking's sake doesn't benefit anyone.

Thanks for the post Jason.

For business social media is (and should be) a tool to do things with. Those things can be diverse and different from business to business. Driving sales, increasing website traffic and increasing brand awareness are some easy and widely practised examples.

Whatever the goal it is vital to have some way to measure ROI in some form. I enjoy that challenge. It's all to easy to jump on board with no plan. That's where all the “join the conversation” guff gets used to cover up the cracks in a poor social media plan.

Conversations still matter. Effective engagement must respect the mores of the idiom, but talking for talking's sake doesn't benefit anyone.

Thanks for the post Jason.

For business social media is (and should be) a tool to do things with. Those things can be diverse and different from business to business. Driving sales, increasing website traffic and increasing brand awareness are some easy and widely practised examples.

Whatever the goal it is vital to have some way to measure ROI in some form. I enjoy that challenge. It's all to easy to jump on board with no plan. That's where all the “join the conversation” guff gets used to cover up the cracks in a poor social media plan.

Conversations still matter. Effective engagement must respect the mores of the idiom, but talking for talking's sake doesn't benefit anyone.

Thanks for the post Jason.

For business social media is (and should be) a tool to do things with. Those things can be diverse and different from business to business. Driving sales, increasing website traffic and increasing brand awareness are some easy and widely practised examples.

Whatever the goal it is vital to have some way to measure ROI in some form. I enjoy that challenge. It's all to easy to jump on board with no plan. That's where all the “join the conversation” guff gets used to cover up the cracks in a poor social media plan.

Conversations still matter. Effective engagement must respect the mores of the idiom, but talking for talking's sake doesn't benefit anyone.

I thoroughly disagree.

You have, through your eloquent presentation, tried to focus on only one side of the coin. Well written.

Unless people are sufficiently engaged, or unless you are some super famous company, people will not be interested to even gawk at your product, let alone buy it, unless they feel they are involved.

Conversations, engagements et al are important for the smaller player. It's great that they do not have the money to hire you.

I rest my case.

I thoroughly disagree.

You have, through your eloquent presentation, tried to focus on only one side of the coin. Well written.

Unless people are sufficiently engaged, or unless you are some super famous company, people will not be interested to even gawk at your product, let alone buy it, unless they feel they are involved.

Conversations, engagements et al are important for the smaller player. It's great that they do not have the money to hire you.

I rest my case.

I thoroughly disagree.

You have, through your eloquent presentation, tried to focus on only one side of the coin. Well written.

Unless people are sufficiently engaged, or unless you are some super famous company, people will not be interested to even gawk at your product, let alone buy it, unless they feel they are involved.

Conversations, engagements et al are important for the smaller player. It's great that they do not have the money to hire you.

I rest my case.

I thoroughly disagree.

You have, through your eloquent presentation, tried to focus on only one side of the coin. Well written.

Unless people are sufficiently engaged, or unless you are some super famous company, people will not be interested to even gawk at your product, let alone buy it, unless they feel they are involved.

Conversations, engagements et al are important for the smaller player. It's great that they do not have the money to hire you.

I rest my case.

I thoroughly disagree.

You have, through your eloquent presentation, tried to focus on only one side of the coin. Well written.

Unless people are sufficiently engaged, or unless you are some super famous company, people will not be interested to even gawk at your product, let alone buy it, unless they feel they are involved.

Conversations, engagements et al are important for the smaller player. It's great that they do not have the money to hire you.

I rest my case.

I thoroughly disagree.

You have, through your eloquent presentation, tried to focus on only one side of the coin. Well written.

Unless people are sufficiently engaged, or unless you are some super famous company, people will not be interested to even gawk at your product, let alone buy it, unless they feel they are involved.

Conversations, engagements et al are important for the smaller player. It's great that they do not have the money to hire you.

I rest my case.

Sure – businesses look to the bottom line. And if social media does not bring in revenue it will quickly be deemed a waste of time and money.

But it's not just one or the other; A or B. Social media is rapidly evolving. New approaches are yet to be developed that will generate measurable sales from SM relationships and online/offline word-of-mouth.

The Web and Web-based commerce will become more and more social. The social Web will impact B2B and B2C advertising by supporting trust and connectedness.

Sure – businesses look to the bottom line. And if social media does not bring in revenue it will quickly be deemed a waste of time and money.

But it's not just one or the other; A or B. Social media is rapidly evolving. New approaches are yet to be developed that will generate measurable sales from SM relationships and online/offline word-of-mouth.

The Web and Web-based commerce will become more and more social. The social Web will impact B2B and B2C advertising by supporting trust and connectedness.

Sure – businesses look to the bottom line. And if social media does not bring in revenue it will quickly be deemed a waste of time and money.

But it's not just one or the other; A or B. Social media is rapidly evolving. New approaches are yet to be developed that will generate measurable sales from SM relationships and online/offline word-of-mouth.

The Web and Web-based commerce will become more and more social. The social Web will impact B2B and B2C advertising by supporting trust and connectedness.

Sure – businesses look to the bottom line. And if social media does not bring in revenue it will quickly be deemed a waste of time and money.

But it's not just one or the other; A or B. Social media is rapidly evolving. New approaches are yet to be developed that will generate measurable sales from SM relationships and online/offline word-of-mouth.

The Web and Web-based commerce will become more and more social. The social Web will impact B2B and B2C advertising by supporting trust and connectedness.

Sure – businesses look to the bottom line. And if social media does not bring in revenue it will quickly be deemed a waste of time and money.

But it's not just one or the other; A or B. Social media is rapidly evolving. New approaches are yet to be developed that will generate measurable sales from SM relationships and online/offline word-of-mouth.

The Web and Web-based commerce will become more and more social. The social Web will impact B2B and B2C advertising by supporting trust and connectedness.

Sure – businesses look to the bottom line. And if social media does not bring in revenue it will quickly be deemed a waste of time and money.

But it's not just one or the other; A or B. Social media is rapidly evolving. New approaches are yet to be developed that will generate measurable sales from SM relationships and online/offline word-of-mouth.

The Web and Web-based commerce will become more and more social. The social Web will impact B2B and B2C advertising by supporting trust and connectedness.

Nice, very nice observation. It's all fun and games until somebody looses an eye.

Nice, very nice observation. It's all fun and games until somebody looses an eye.

Nice, very nice observation. It's all fun and games until somebody looses an eye.

Nice, very nice observation. It's all fun and games until somebody looses an eye.

Nice, very nice observation. It's all fun and games until somebody looses an eye.

Nice, very nice observation. It's all fun and games until somebody looses an eye.

As I just said in a tweet about this post, SM needs more of these “reality check” moments. We can't expect clients to shell out resources simply because the conversation is “cool.” It's possible to have conversations that impact bottom line, and it's OK to think that way. More folks should try it.

As I just said in a tweet about this post, SM needs more of these “reality check” moments. We can't expect clients to shell out resources simply because the conversation is “cool.” It's possible to have conversations that impact bottom line, and it's OK to think that way. More folks should try it.

As I just said in a tweet about this post, SM needs more of these “reality check” moments. We can't expect clients to shell out resources simply because the conversation is “cool.” It's possible to have conversations that impact bottom line, and it's OK to think that way. More folks should try it.

As I just said in a tweet about this post, SM needs more of these “reality check” moments. We can't expect clients to shell out resources simply because the conversation is “cool.” It's possible to have conversations that impact bottom line, and it's OK to think that way. More folks should try it.

As I just said in a tweet about this post, SM needs more of these “reality check” moments. We can't expect clients to shell out resources simply because the conversation is “cool.” It's possible to have conversations that impact bottom line, and it's OK to think that way. More folks should try it.

As I just said in a tweet about this post, SM needs more of these “reality check” moments. We can't expect clients to shell out resources simply because the conversation is “cool.” It's possible to have conversations that impact bottom line, and it's OK to think that way. More folks should try it.

I thoroughly agree. Not too long ago you wrote a post saying that any company expecting to make money off of social media will fail. I just about fell out of my chair. Welcome to the real world, my friend.

I thoroughly agree. Not too long ago you wrote a post saying that any company expecting to make money off of social media will fail. I just about fell out of my chair. Welcome to the real world, my friend.

I thoroughly agree. Not too long ago you wrote a post saying that any company expecting to make money off of social media will fail. I just about fell out of my chair. Welcome to the real world, my friend.

I thoroughly agree. Not too long ago you wrote a post saying that any company expecting to make money off of social media will fail. I just about fell out of my chair. Welcome to the real world, my friend.

I thoroughly agree. Not too long ago you wrote a post saying that any company expecting to make money off of social media will fail. I just about fell out of my chair. Welcome to the real world, my friend.

I thoroughly agree. Not too long ago you wrote a post saying that any company expecting to make money off of social media will fail. I just about fell out of my chair. Welcome to the real world, my friend.

Business is about making money, period. That's not to say that there isn't room for “conversation” and that much of the guidance is not valid, we just have to remember the ulitmate end game.

Business is about making money, period. That's not to say that there isn't room for “conversation” and that much of the guidance is not valid, we just have to remember the ulitmate end game.

Business is about making money, period. That's not to say that there isn't room for “conversation” and that much of the guidance is not valid, we just have to remember the ulitmate end game.

Business is about making money, period. That's not to say that there isn't room for “conversation” and that much of the guidance is not valid, we just have to remember the ulitmate end game.

Business is about making money, period. That's not to say that there isn't room for “conversation” and that much of the guidance is not valid, we just have to remember the ulitmate end game.

Business is about making money, period. That's not to say that there isn't room for “conversation” and that much of the guidance is not valid, we just have to remember the ulitmate end game.

Outstanding, well written post. All the prescribed engagement behaviors are necessary but usually not sufficient to meet businesses' real-life need to acquire and retain more customers.

Outstanding, well written post. All the prescribed engagement behaviors are necessary but usually not sufficient to meet businesses' real-life need to acquire and retain more customers.

Outstanding, well written post. All the prescribed engagement behaviors are necessary but usually not sufficient to meet businesses' real-life need to acquire and retain more customers.

Outstanding, well written post. All the prescribed engagement behaviors are necessary but usually not sufficient to meet businesses' real-life need to acquire and retain more customers.

Outstanding, well written post. All the prescribed engagement behaviors are necessary but usually not sufficient to meet businesses' real-life need to acquire and retain more customers.

Outstanding, well written post. All the prescribed engagement behaviors are necessary but usually not sufficient to meet businesses' real-life need to acquire and retain more customers.

IMO, re: social media, RELEVANT engagement is necessary “in this day and age”. Finding the balance between business & conversations is key.

IMO, re: social media, RELEVANT engagement is necessary “in this day and age”. Finding the balance between business & conversations is key.

IMO, re: social media, RELEVANT engagement is necessary “in this day and age”. Finding the balance between business & conversations is key.

IMO, re: social media, RELEVANT engagement is necessary “in this day and age”. Finding the balance between business & conversations is key.

IMO, re: social media, RELEVANT engagement is necessary “in this day and age”. Finding the balance between business & conversations is key.

IMO, re: social media, RELEVANT engagement is necessary “in this day and age”. Finding the balance between business & conversations is key.

Certainly don't disagree Kishau. Thanks for that. My point used a bit of a line in the sand for effect, but you're spot on.

Certainly don't disagree Kishau. Thanks for that. My point used a bit of a line in the sand for effect, but you're spot on.

Certainly don't disagree Kishau. Thanks for that. My point used a bit of a line in the sand for effect, but you're spot on.

Certainly don't disagree Kishau. Thanks for that. My point used a bit of a line in the sand for effect, but you're spot on.

Certainly don't disagree Kishau. Thanks for that. My point used a bit of a line in the sand for effect, but you're spot on.

Certainly don't disagree Kishau. Thanks for that. My point used a bit of a line in the sand for effect, but you're spot on.

Thanks Lisa. Appreciate the acknowledgment.

Thanks Lisa. Appreciate the acknowledgment.

Thanks Lisa. Appreciate the acknowledgment.

Thanks Lisa. Appreciate the acknowledgment.

Thanks Lisa. Appreciate the acknowledgment.

Thanks Lisa. Appreciate the acknowledgment.

Thanks, Steve. That was certainly my point. Glad you agree. There is a balance that we can produce that feeds both needs/desires, but the bottom line will always be the driver for our businesses. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks, Steve. That was certainly my point. Glad you agree. There is a balance that we can produce that feeds both needs/desires, but the bottom line will always be the driver for our businesses. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks, Steve. That was certainly my point. Glad you agree. There is a balance that we can produce that feeds both needs/desires, but the bottom line will always be the driver for our businesses. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks, Steve. That was certainly my point. Glad you agree. There is a balance that we can produce that feeds both needs/desires, but the bottom line will always be the driver for our businesses. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks, Steve. That was certainly my point. Glad you agree. There is a balance that we can produce that feeds both needs/desires, but the bottom line will always be the driver for our businesses. Thanks for the comment.

Thanks, Steve. That was certainly my point. Glad you agree. There is a balance that we can produce that feeds both needs/desires, but the bottom line will always be the driver for our businesses. Thanks for the comment.

I agree that for SM to succeed for business it needs to drive traffic and/or sales. However, I feel that the real power of social media is not it's commercial benefits. Social media gives us the opportunity to explore new ideas and solutions together. A chance to make real positive changes in our society.

My fear is that if it commercialized, the actual social benefits will be lost or obscured. SM is about conversation. Why do we have to exploit every communications platform for commercial/corporate benefit?

The real question is will social media allow, and coexist with, heavy commercial intrusions or will it simply transform itself to purge the unwanted and move ahead of wave?

I agree that for SM to succeed for business it needs to drive traffic and/or sales. However, I feel that the real power of social media is not its commercial benefits. Social media gives us the opportunity to explore new ideas and solutions together. A chance to make real positive changes in our society.

My fear is that if it is commercialized, the actual social benefits will be lost or obscured. SM is about conversation. Why do we have to exploit every communications platform for commercial/corporate benefit?

The real question is will social media allow, and coexist with, heavy commercial intrusions or will it simply transform itself to purge the unwanted and move ahead of wave?

I agree that for SM to succeed for business it needs to drive traffic and/or sales. However, I feel that the real power of social media is not its commercial benefits. Social media gives us the opportunity to explore new ideas and solutions together. A chance to make real positive changes in our society.

My fear is that if it is commercialized, the actual social benefits will be lost or obscured. SM is about conversation. Why do we have to exploit every communications platform for commercial/corporate benefit?

The real question is will social media allow, and coexist with, heavy commercial intrusions or will it simply transform itself to purge the unwanted and move ahead of wave?

I agree that for SM to succeed for business it needs to drive traffic and/or sales. However, I feel that the real power of social media is not its commercial benefits. Social media gives us the opportunity to explore new ideas and solutions together. A chance to make real positive changes in our society.

My fear is that if it is commercialized, the actual social benefits will be lost or obscured. SM is about conversation. Why do we have to exploit every communications platform for commercial/corporate benefit?

The real question is will social media allow, and coexist with, heavy commercial intrusions or will it simply transform itself to purge the unwanted and move ahead of wave?

I agree that for SM to succeed for business it needs to drive traffic and/or sales. However, I feel that the real power of social media is not its commercial benefits. Social media gives us the opportunity to explore new ideas and solutions together. A chance to make real positive changes in our society.

My fear is that if it is commercialized, the actual social benefits will be lost or obscured. SM is about conversation. Why do we have to exploit every communications platform for commercial/corporate benefit?

The real question is will social media allow, and coexist with, heavy commercial intrusions or will it simply transform itself to purge the unwanted and move ahead of wave?

I agree that for SM to succeed for business it needs to drive traffic and/or sales. However, I feel that the real power of social media is not its commercial benefits. Social media gives us the opportunity to explore new ideas and solutions together. A chance to make real positive changes in our society.

My fear is that if it is commercialized, the actual social benefits will be lost or obscured. SM is about conversation. Why do we have to exploit every communications platform for commercial/corporate benefit?

The real question is will social media allow, and coexist with, heavy commercial intrusions or will it simply transform itself to purge the unwanted and move ahead of wave?

Funny how more experiences can change your opinions a bit. Or how dramatic license can be taken to stir up a conversation. Now you have ask yourself which is the case. Heh.

Funny how more experiences can change your opinions a bit. Or how dramatic license can be taken to stir up a conversation. Now you have ask yourself which is the case. Heh.

Funny how more experiences can change your opinions a bit. Or how dramatic license can be taken to stir up a conversation. Now you have ask yourself which is the case. Heh.

Funny how more experiences can change your opinions a bit. Or how dramatic license can be taken to stir up a conversation. Now you have ask yourself which is the case. Heh.

Funny how more experiences can change your opinions a bit. Or how dramatic license can be taken to stir up a conversation. Now you have ask yourself which is the case. Heh.

Funny how more experiences can change your opinions a bit. Or how dramatic license can be taken to stir up a conversation. Now you have ask yourself which is the case. Heh.

Thanks, Professor. Appreciate the verification I'm not nuts here.

Thanks, Professor. Appreciate the verification I'm not nuts here.

Thanks, Professor. Appreciate the verification I'm not nuts here.

Thanks, Professor. Appreciate the verification I'm not nuts here.

Thanks, Professor. Appreciate the verification I'm not nuts here.

Thanks, Professor. Appreciate the verification I'm not nuts here.

Or can't afford to fix it when they do. Heh. Thanks, Rob.

Or can't afford to fix it when they do. Heh. Thanks, Rob.

Or can't afford to fix it when they do. Heh. Thanks, Rob.

Or can't afford to fix it when they do. Heh. Thanks, Rob.

Or can't afford to fix it when they do. Heh. Thanks, Rob.

Or can't afford to fix it when they do. Heh. Thanks, Rob.

Completely agree Tim. Yeah, the post probably comes across that I'm saying it should all be about sales, but that's just a mechanism to drive some interaction around this. I do believe in a balance of both. I do believe conversation can drive business. I just also know that we have to ensure it does or the investment on the client or company side just earns a bunch of chatter. Thanks for chiming in.

Completely agree Tim. Yeah, the post probably comes across that I'm saying it should all be about sales, but that's just a mechanism to drive some interaction around this. I do believe in a balance of both. I do believe conversation can drive business. I just also know that we have to ensure it does or the investment on the client or company side just earns a bunch of chatter. Thanks for chiming in.

Completely agree Tim. Yeah, the post probably comes across that I'm saying it should all be about sales, but that's just a mechanism to drive some interaction around this. I do believe in a balance of both. I do believe conversation can drive business. I just also know that we have to ensure it does or the investment on the client or company side just earns a bunch of chatter. Thanks for chiming in.

Completely agree Tim. Yeah, the post probably comes across that I'm saying it should all be about sales, but that's just a mechanism to drive some interaction around this. I do believe in a balance of both. I do believe conversation can drive business. I just also know that we have to ensure it does or the investment on the client or company side just earns a bunch of chatter. Thanks for chiming in.

Completely agree Tim. Yeah, the post probably comes across that I'm saying it should all be about sales, but that's just a mechanism to drive some interaction around this. I do believe in a balance of both. I do believe conversation can drive business. I just also know that we have to ensure it does or the investment on the client or company side just earns a bunch of chatter. Thanks for chiming in.

Completely agree Tim. Yeah, the post probably comes across that I'm saying it should all be about sales, but that's just a mechanism to drive some interaction around this. I do believe in a balance of both. I do believe conversation can drive business. I just also know that we have to ensure it does or the investment on the client or company side just earns a bunch of chatter. Thanks for chiming in.

Here's the thing. Sales have always been about price, quality or recommendation. Social Media channels can be used to spread any of those things. TV ads with celebrities telling us those things are not effective anymore because people go on Amazon to check reviews before buying anything.

Customer retention strategy has begun to shift drastically, and people not engaging online and offline will soon find themselves with a bigger business problem to address (see: the music industry).

Having said that, I do agree that the warm-and-fuzzy-join-the-conversation-we-are-all-one-spiritual-entity stuff will not sell the C-Suite on tools that can ultimately have a powerful affect on the bottom line. Amber's conversation at the Web2Open last week touched on some of these same issues. We as SM Purists need to take a long hard look at our own strategies for getting buy-in. We KNOW it works, there is starting to be more data to back it up, but crunchy doesn't play well for people whose main concern is the bottom line (and we need those people, believe me).

Someone way smarter than me said that the only way to sell upper management on anything is to make the case that it will make them money or save them money. I think the relatively low cost of a social media investment (community manager, website) is a much stronger way in. “Take 10% of the budget you were going to spend on that one TV ad and spend it on a years worth of building a community of customers and potential customers online”

Here's the thing. Sales have always been about price, quality or recommendation. Social Media channels can be used to spread any of those things. TV ads with celebrities telling us those things are not effective anymore because people go on Amazon to check reviews before buying anything.

Customer retention strategy has begun to shift drastically, and people not engaging online and offline will soon find themselves with a bigger business problem to address (see: the music industry).

Having said that, I do agree that the warm-and-fuzzy-join-the-conversation-we-are-all-one-spiritual-entity stuff will not sell the C-Suite on tools that can ultimately have a powerful affect on the bottom line. Amber's conversation at the Web2Open last week touched on some of these same issues. We as SM Purists need to take a long hard look at our own strategies for getting buy-in. We KNOW it works, there is starting to be more data to back it up, but crunchy doesn't play well for people whose main concern is the bottom line (and we need those people, believe me).

Someone way smarter than me said that the only way to sell upper management on anything is to make the case that it will make them money or save them money. I think the relatively low cost of a social media investment (community manager, website) is a much stronger way in. “Take 10% of the budget you were going to spend on that one TV ad and spend it on a years worth of building a community of customers and potential customers online”

Here's the thing. Sales have always been about price, quality or recommendation. Social Media channels can be used to spread any of those things. TV ads with celebrities telling us those things are not effective anymore because people go on Amazon to check reviews before buying anything.

Customer retention strategy has begun to shift drastically, and people not engaging online and offline will soon find themselves with a bigger business problem to address (see: the music industry).

Having said that, I do agree that the warm-and-fuzzy-join-the-conversation-we-are-all-one-spiritual-entity stuff will not sell the C-Suite on tools that can ultimately have a powerful affect on the bottom line. Amber's conversation at the Web2Open last week touched on some of these same issues. We as SM Purists need to take a long hard look at our own strategies for getting buy-in. We KNOW it works, there is starting to be more data to back it up, but crunchy doesn't play well for people whose main concern is the bottom line (and we need those people, believe me).

Someone way smarter than me said that the only way to sell upper management on anything is to make the case that it will make them money or save them money. I think the relatively low cost of a social media investment (community manager, website) is a much stronger way in. “Take 10% of the budget you were going to spend on that one TV ad and spend it on a years worth of building a community of customers and potential customers online”

Here's the thing. Sales have always been about price, quality or recommendation. Social Media channels can be used to spread any of those things. TV ads with celebrities telling us those things are not effective anymore because people go on Amazon to check reviews before buying anything.

Customer retention strategy has begun to shift drastically, and people not engaging online and offline will soon find themselves with a bigger business problem to address (see: the music industry).

Having said that, I do agree that the warm-and-fuzzy-join-the-conversation-we-are-all-one-spiritual-entity stuff will not sell the C-Suite on tools that can ultimately have a powerful affect on the bottom line. Amber's conversation at the Web2Open last week touched on some of these same issues. We as SM Purists need to take a long hard look at our own strategies for getting buy-in. We KNOW it works, there is starting to be more data to back it up, but crunchy doesn't play well for people whose main concern is the bottom line (and we need those people, believe me).

Someone way smarter than me said that the only way to sell upper management on anything is to make the case that it will make them money or save them money. I think the relatively low cost of a social media investment (community manager, website) is a much stronger way in. “Take 10% of the budget you were going to spend on that one TV ad and spend it on a years worth of building a community of customers and potential customers online”

Here's the thing. Sales have always been about price, quality or recommendation. Social Media channels can be used to spread any of those things. TV ads with celebrities telling us those things are not effective anymore because people go on Amazon to check reviews before buying anything.

Customer retention strategy has begun to shift drastically, and people not engaging online and offline will soon find themselves with a bigger business problem to address (see: the music industry).

Having said that, I do agree that the warm-and-fuzzy-join-the-conversation-we-are-all-one-spiritual-entity stuff will not sell the C-Suite on tools that can ultimately have a powerful affect on the bottom line. Amber's conversation at the Web2Open last week touched on some of these same issues. We as SM Purists need to take a long hard look at our own strategies for getting buy-in. We KNOW it works, there is starting to be more data to back it up, but crunchy doesn't play well for people whose main concern is the bottom line (and we need those people, believe me).

Someone way smarter than me said that the only way to sell upper management on anything is to make the case that it will make them money or save them money. I think the relatively low cost of a social media investment (community manager, website) is a much stronger way in. “Take 10% of the budget you were going to spend on that one TV ad and spend it on a years worth of building a community of customers and potential customers online”

Here's the thing. Sales have always been about price, quality or recommendation. Social Media channels can be used to spread any of those things. TV ads with celebrities telling us those things are not effective anymore because people go on Amazon to check reviews before buying anything.

Customer retention strategy has begun to shift drastically, and people not engaging online and offline will soon find themselves with a bigger business problem to address (see: the music industry).

Having said that, I do agree that the warm-and-fuzzy-join-the-conversation-we-are-all-one-spiritual-entity stuff will not sell the C-Suite on tools that can ultimately have a powerful affect on the bottom line. Amber's conversation at the Web2Open last week touched on some of these same issues. We as SM Purists need to take a long hard look at our own strategies for getting buy-in. We KNOW it works, there is starting to be more data to back it up, but crunchy doesn't play well for people whose main concern is the bottom line (and we need those people, believe me).

Someone way smarter than me said that the only way to sell upper management on anything is to make the case that it will make them money or save them money. I think the relatively low cost of a social media investment (community manager, website) is a much stronger way in. “Take 10% of the budget you were going to spend on that one TV ad and spend it on a years worth of building a community of customers and potential customers online”

Great post, I could not agree with you more on the “long-term” aspect. The bottom line of most Social Media implementations are to sell more. That is fine, as long as the way that you go about it is well thought out and well strategized. People are not stupid and they will see through any attempt to push product down their throat. Then your name and brand will be dragged through the mud. At the same time, creativity within your strategy can bring very positive results.
It is a Social Media guy that needs to get the “juices” flowing within a corporation in order to develop an appropriate strategy and launch an effective implementation. The tools are there, just figure out how to use them.
Mike

Great post, I could not agree with you more on the “long-term” aspect. The bottom line of most Social Media implementations are to sell more. That is fine, as long as the way that you go about it is well thought out and well strategized. People are not stupid and they will see through any attempt to push product down their throat. Then your name and brand will be dragged through the mud. At the same time, creativity within your strategy can bring very positive results.
It is a Social Media guy that needs to get the “juices” flowing within a corporation in order to develop an appropriate strategy and launch an effective implementation. The tools are there, just figure out how to use them.
Mike

Great post, I could not agree with you more on the “long-term” aspect. The bottom line of most Social Media implementations are to sell more. That is fine, as long as the way that you go about it is well thought out and well strategized. People are not stupid and they will see through any attempt to push product down their throat. Then your name and brand will be dragged through the mud. At the same time, creativity within your strategy can bring very positive results.
It is a Social Media guy that needs to get the “juices” flowing within a corporation in order to develop an appropriate strategy and launch an effective implementation. The tools are there, just figure out how to use them.
Mike

Great post, I could not agree with you more on the “long-term” aspect. The bottom line of most Social Media implementations are to sell more. That is fine, as long as the way that you go about it is well thought out and well strategized. People are not stupid and they will see through any attempt to push product down their throat. Then your name and brand will be dragged through the mud. At the same time, creativity within your strategy can bring very positive results.
It is a Social Media guy that needs to get the “juices” flowing within a corporation in order to develop an appropriate strategy and launch an effective implementation. The tools are there, just figure out how to use them.
Mike

Great post, I could not agree with you more on the “long-term” aspect. The bottom line of most Social Media implementations are to sell more. That is fine, as long as the way that you go about it is well thought out and well strategized. People are not stupid and they will see through any attempt to push product down their throat. Then your name and brand will be dragged through the mud. At the same time, creativity within your strategy can bring very positive results.
It is a Social Media guy that needs to get the “juices” flowing within a corporation in order to develop an appropriate strategy and launch an effective implementation. The tools are there, just figure out how to use them.
Mike

Great post, I could not agree with you more on the “long-term” aspect. The bottom line of most Social Media implementations are to sell more. That is fine, as long as the way that you go about it is well thought out and well strategized. People are not stupid and they will see through any attempt to push product down their throat. Then your name and brand will be dragged through the mud. At the same time, creativity within your strategy can bring very positive results.
It is a Social Media guy that needs to get the “juices” flowing within a corporation in order to develop an appropriate strategy and launch an effective implementation. The tools are there, just figure out how to use them.
Mike

Dead-on. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Ah, the young whippersnappers with their pithy responses. Glad to make you feel like you've “won” the conversation.

As you should know from previous posts or reading through my other comments, I believe in the power of conversations and that they can, indeed drive businesses. Engagement is fundamental in attracting consumers, etc. But for the social media work that we do, as consultants or as social media managers/activators for their companies, if we are selling only the fluff of the conversation and not worrying about driving the bottom line, then our clients/companies need to move on to someone who can.

So as rested as your case may be, and as dramatic as you proclaimed me unfit to consult small businesses, they are the very ones that will be able to afford my services because I get them more than a Twitter page.

Ah, the young whippersnappers with their pithy responses. Glad to make you feel like you've “won” the conversation.

As you should know from previous posts or reading through my other comments, I believe in the power of conversations and that they can, indeed drive businesses. Engagement is fundamental in attracting consumers, etc. But for the social media work that we do, as consultants or as social media managers/activators for their companies, if we are selling only the fluff of the conversation and not worrying about driving the bottom line, then our clients/companies need to move on to someone who can.

So as rested as your case may be, and as dramatic as you proclaimed me unfit to consult small businesses, they are the very ones that will be able to afford my services because I get them more than a Twitter page.

Ah, the young whippersnappers with their pithy responses. Glad to make you feel like you've “won” the conversation.

As you should know from previous posts or reading through my other comments, I believe in the power of conversations and that they can, indeed drive businesses. Engagement is fundamental in attracting consumers, etc. But for the social media work that we do, as consultants or as social media managers/activators for their companies, if we are selling only the fluff of the conversation and not worrying about driving the bottom line, then our clients/companies need to move on to someone who can.

So as rested as your case may be, and as dramatic as you proclaimed me unfit to consult small businesses, they are the very ones that will be able to afford my services because I get them more than a Twitter page.

Ah, the young whippersnappers with their pithy responses. Glad to make you feel like you've “won” the conversation.

As you should know from previous posts or reading through my other comments, I believe in the power of conversations and that they can, indeed drive businesses. Engagement is fundamental in attracting consumers, etc. But for the social media work that we do, as consultants or as social media managers/activators for their companies, if we are selling only the fluff of the conversation and not worrying about driving the bottom line, then our clients/companies need to move on to someone who can.

So as rested as your case may be, and as dramatic as you proclaimed me unfit to consult small businesses, they are the very ones that will be able to afford my services because I get them more than a Twitter page.

Ah, the young whippersnappers with their pithy responses. Glad to make you feel like you've “won” the conversation.

As you should know from previous posts or reading through my other comments, I believe in the power of conversations and that they can, indeed drive businesses. Engagement is fundamental in attracting consumers, etc. But for the social media work that we do, as consultants or as social media managers/activators for their companies, if we are selling only the fluff of the conversation and not worrying about driving the bottom line, then our clients/companies need to move on to someone who can.

So as rested as your case may be, and as dramatic as you proclaimed me unfit to consult small businesses, they are the very ones that will be able to afford my services because I get them more than a Twitter page.

Ah, the young whippersnappers with their pithy responses. Glad to make you feel like you've “won” the conversation.

As you should know from previous posts or reading through my other comments, I believe in the power of conversations and that they can, indeed drive businesses. Engagement is fundamental in attracting consumers, etc. But for the social media work that we do, as consultants or as social media managers/activators for their companies, if we are selling only the fluff of the conversation and not worrying about driving the bottom line, then our clients/companies need to move on to someone who can.

So as rested as your case may be, and as dramatic as you proclaimed me unfit to consult small businesses, they are the very ones that will be able to afford my services because I get them more than a Twitter page.

Dead-on correct. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on correct. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on correct. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on correct. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on correct. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Dead-on correct. We have to take all the great “soft” aspects of social media and learn to weave in “hard” results. It's not either-or (when it comes to business) – it's both-and.

Excellent addition, Rubken. Great way to take the two sides and marry them together nicely. Well done.

Excellent addition, Rubken. Great way to take the two sides and marry them together nicely. Well done.

Excellent addition, Rubken. Great way to take the two sides and marry them together nicely. Well done.

Excellent addition, Rubken. Great way to take the two sides and marry them together nicely. Well done.

Excellent addition, Rubken. Great way to take the two sides and marry them together nicely. Well done.

Excellent addition, Rubken. Great way to take the two sides and marry them together nicely. Well done.

Well said sir (or madame). I love the sales angle to the conversational element. Thank you for that.

Well said sir (or madame). I love the sales angle to the conversational element. Thank you for that.

Well said sir (or madame). I love the sales angle to the conversational element. Thank you for that.

Well said sir (or madame). I love the sales angle to the conversational element. Thank you for that.

Well said sir (or madame). I love the sales angle to the conversational element. Thank you for that.

Well said sir (or madame). I love the sales angle to the conversational element. Thank you for that.

Great post, Jason. This is definitely something I struggle with, being a bit of a “purist” myself (read: hippie idealist attempting to be business savvy.)

“I’m all for your principles. I’m a big fan of The Cluetrain’s “markets are conversations,” notion. But I can promise you a conversation never paid the damn electric bill.”

^ love that.

Great post, Jason. This is definitely something I struggle with, being a bit of a “purist” myself (read: hippie idealist attempting to be business savvy.)

“I’m all for your principles. I’m a big fan of The Cluetrain’s “markets are conversations,” notion. But I can promise you a conversation never paid the damn electric bill.”

^ love that.

Great post, Jason. This is definitely something I struggle with, being a bit of a “purist” myself (read: hippie idealist attempting to be business savvy.)

“I’m all for your principles. I’m a big fan of The Cluetrain’s “markets are conversations,” notion. But I can promise you a conversation never paid the damn electric bill.”

^ love that.

Great post, Jason. This is definitely something I struggle with, being a bit of a “purist” myself (read: hippie idealist attempting to be business savvy.)

“I’m all for your principles. I’m a big fan of The Cluetrain’s “markets are conversations,” notion. But I can promise you a conversation never paid the damn electric bill.”

^ love that.

Great post, Jason. This is definitely something I struggle with, being a bit of a “purist” myself (read: hippie idealist attempting to be business savvy.)

“I’m all for your principles. I’m a big fan of The Cluetrain’s “markets are conversations,” notion. But I can promise you a conversation never paid the damn electric bill.”

^ love that.

Great post, Jason. This is definitely something I struggle with, being a bit of a “purist” myself (read: hippie idealist attempting to be business savvy.)

“I’m all for your principles. I’m a big fan of The Cluetrain’s “markets are conversations,” notion. But I can promise you a conversation never paid the damn electric bill.”

^ love that.

Thanks for the comment!

Thanks for the comment!

Thanks for the comment!

Thanks for the comment!

Thanks for the comment!

Thanks for the comment!

Agreed, Gemma. Thanks for that. I certainly drew a harder line than matches my normal stance to spark the conversation, but you're right. They are not mutually exclusive and, when done appropriately, can feed one another.

Agreed, Gemma. Thanks for that. I certainly drew a harder line than matches my normal stance to spark the conversation, but you're right. They are not mutually exclusive and, when done appropriately, can feed one another.

Agreed, Gemma. Thanks for that. I certainly drew a harder line than matches my normal stance to spark the conversation, but you're right. They are not mutually exclusive and, when done appropriately, can feed one another.

Agreed, Gemma. Thanks for that. I certainly drew a harder line than matches my normal stance to spark the conversation, but you're right. They are not mutually exclusive and, when done appropriately, can feed one another.

Agreed, Gemma. Thanks for that. I certainly drew a harder line than matches my normal stance to spark the conversation, but you're right. They are not mutually exclusive and, when done appropriately, can feed one another.

Agreed, Gemma. Thanks for that. I certainly drew a harder line than matches my normal stance to spark the conversation, but you're right. They are not mutually exclusive and, when done appropriately, can feed one another.

Eeeee! Jason – nice call out. I'm a SoMe gal who learned the hard way that the purist way of life cannot survive. Your blog is accurate but uncomfortable to read. Perhaps it's seeing the error of one's ways right there in black and white. perhaps…

I delivered a SoMe proposal to a global telco client back in September. My purist self met a very real world client and the process that landed us at the final result was nothing less than frustrating. Not neccessarily due to a lack of ROI but a purist SoMe solution does not consider industry regulations, parameters and brick walls the client faces. An evolution of the proposal was definitely needed – and although it had a happy ending, the lesson was incredibly challening for all involved. I am in full agreement that the purist approach needs to be shelved an more evolved business approach placed up front and center. Although… I think it's worth noting the use of the words “evolve” and the absence of “compromise”. Or is that the flamin' purist in me at work again? HAH!

Eeeee! Jason – nice call out. I'm a SoMe gal who learned the hard way that the purist way of life cannot survive. Your blog is accurate but uncomfortable to read. Perhaps it's seeing the error of one's ways right there in black and white. perhaps…

I delivered a SoMe proposal to a global telco client back in September. My purist self met a very real world client and the process that landed us at the final result was nothing less than frustrating. Not neccessarily due to a lack of ROI but a purist SoMe solution does not consider industry regulations, parameters and brick walls the client faces. An evolution of the proposal was definitely needed – and although it had a happy ending, the lesson was incredibly challening for all involved. I am in full agreement that the purist approach needs to be shelved an more evolved business approach placed up front and center. Although… I think it's worth noting the use of the words “evolve” and the absence of “compromise”. Or is that the flamin' purist in me at work again? HAH!

Eeeee! Jason – nice call out. I'm a SoMe gal who learned the hard way that the purist way of life cannot survive. Your blog is accurate but uncomfortable to read. Perhaps it's seeing the error of one's ways right there in black and white. perhaps…

I delivered a SoMe proposal to a global telco client back in September. My purist self met a very real world client and the process that landed us at the final result was nothing less than frustrating. Not neccessarily due to a lack of ROI but a purist SoMe solution does not consider industry regulations, parameters and brick walls the client faces. An evolution of the proposal was definitely needed – and although it had a happy ending, the lesson was incredibly challening for all involved. I am in full agreement that the purist approach needs to be shelved an more evolved business approach placed up front and center. Although… I think it's worth noting the use of the words “evolve” and the absence of “compromise”. Or is that the flamin' purist in me at work again? HAH!

Eeeee! Jason – nice call out. I'm a SoMe gal who learned the hard way that the purist way of life cannot survive. Your blog is accurate but uncomfortable to read. Perhaps it's seeing the error of one's ways right there in black and white. perhaps…

I delivered a SoMe proposal to a global telco client back in September. My purist self met a very real world client and the process that landed us at the final result was nothing less than frustrating. Not neccessarily due to a lack of ROI but a purist SoMe solution does not consider industry regulations, parameters and brick walls the client faces. An evolution of the proposal was definitely needed – and although it had a happy ending, the lesson was incredibly challening for all involved. I am in full agreement that the purist approach needs to be shelved an more evolved business approach placed up front and center. Although… I think it's worth noting the use of the words “evolve” and the absence of “compromise”. Or is that the flamin' purist in me at work again? HAH!

Eeeee! Jason – nice call out. I'm a SoMe gal who learned the hard way that the purist way of life cannot survive. Your blog is accurate but uncomfortable to read. Perhaps it's seeing the error of one's ways right there in black and white. perhaps…

I delivered a SoMe proposal to a global telco client back in September. My purist self met a very real world client and the process that landed us at the final result was nothing less than frustrating. Not neccessarily due to a lack of ROI but a purist SoMe solution does not consider industry regulations, parameters and brick walls the client faces. An evolution of the proposal was definitely needed – and although it had a happy ending, the lesson was incredibly challening for all involved. I am in full agreement that the purist approach needs to be shelved an more evolved business approach placed up front and center. Although… I think it's worth noting the use of the words “evolve” and the absence of “compromise”. Or is that the flamin' purist in me at work again? HAH!

Eeeee! Jason – nice call out. I'm a SoMe gal who learned the hard way that the purist way of life cannot survive. Your blog is accurate but uncomfortable to read. Perhaps it's seeing the error of one's ways right there in black and white. perhaps…

I delivered a SoMe proposal to a global telco client back in September. My purist self met a very real world client and the process that landed us at the final result was nothing less than frustrating. Not neccessarily due to a lack of ROI but a purist SoMe solution does not consider industry regulations, parameters and brick walls the client faces. An evolution of the proposal was definitely needed – and although it had a happy ending, the lesson was incredibly challening for all involved. I am in full agreement that the purist approach needs to be shelved an more evolved business approach placed up front and center. Although… I think it's worth noting the use of the words “evolve” and the absence of “compromise”. Or is that the flamin' purist in me at work again? HAH!

Thanks, Carl. The “because I give them a reason to” is the key to this whole post. The engagement, conversation and more has to lead to that reason to effect the bottom line for companies. Appreciate you re-clarifying that with your comment.

Thanks, Carl. The “because I give them a reason to” is the key to this whole post. The engagement, conversation and more has to lead to that reason to effect the bottom line for companies. Appreciate you re-clarifying that with your comment.

Thanks, Carl. The “because I give them a reason to” is the key to this whole post. The engagement, conversation and more has to lead to that reason to effect the bottom line for companies. Appreciate you re-clarifying that with your comment.

Thanks, Carl. The “because I give them a reason to” is the key to this whole post. The engagement, conversation and more has to lead to that reason to effect the bottom line for companies. Appreciate you re-clarifying that with your comment.

Thanks, Carl. The “because I give them a reason to” is the key to this whole post. The engagement, conversation and more has to lead to that reason to effect the bottom line for companies. Appreciate you re-clarifying that with your comment.

Thanks, Carl. The “because I give them a reason to” is the key to this whole post. The engagement, conversation and more has to lead to that reason to effect the bottom line for companies. Appreciate you re-clarifying that with your comment.

Win.

This post is full of it.

Having come up through the ranks (at least in my mind anyway) during the last couple of years it's been interesting to watch the shift in dynamics. I've never been a purist, never wanted to be and don't really care to explore the “feelings” of business. (Passion about business? Well that's another story…)

If you don't like what's going on? Get out of the way….bunch of damn social media hippies.

Win.

This post is full of it.

Having come up through the ranks (at least in my mind anyway) during the last couple of years it's been interesting to watch the shift in dynamics. I've never been a purist, never wanted to be and don't really care to explore the “feelings” of business. (Passion about business? Well that's another story…)

If you don't like what's going on? Get out of the way….bunch of damn social media hippies.

Win.

This post is full of it.

Having come up through the ranks (at least in my mind anyway) during the last couple of years it's been interesting to watch the shift in dynamics. I've never been a purist, never wanted to be and don't really care to explore the “feelings” of business. (Passion about business? Well that's another story…)

If you don't like what's going on? Get out of the way….bunch of damn social media hippies.

Win.

This post is full of it.

Having come up through the ranks (at least in my mind anyway) during the last couple of years it's been interesting to watch the shift in dynamics. I've never been a purist, never wanted to be and don't really care to explore the “feelings” of business. (Passion about business? Well that's another story…)

If you don't like what's going on? Get out of the way….bunch of damn social media hippies.

Win.

This post is full of it.

Having come up through the ranks (at least in my mind anyway) during the last couple of years it's been interesting to watch the shift in dynamics. I've never been a purist, never wanted to be and don't really care to explore the “feelings” of business. (Passion about business? Well that's another story…)

If you don't like what's going on? Get out of the way….bunch of damn social media hippies.

Win.

This post is full of it.

Having come up through the ranks (at least in my mind anyway) during the last couple of years it's been interesting to watch the shift in dynamics. I've never been a purist, never wanted to be and don't really care to explore the “feelings” of business. (Passion about business? Well that's another story…)

If you don't like what's going on? Get out of the way….bunch of damn social media hippies.

Errr…isn't all this focus on conversation just the prelude to creating points for call-to-action? I mean, for instance, with a billboard, people do not have a choice but to see/ notice the message since they pass by that road everyday. Conversations (creating them/ creating a community for them) is akin to laying the road, so that one day, when the time is right, brands can put up the billboard.

Of course, like Dell, they could start with a compelling communication of an offer, so that, that itself serves as the road laying part. But, for those brands that do not have 'offers' that can evolve into call-for-action, they need to prove first that they care for their customers in whichever online vehicle they choose and then start selling in an appropriate manner. Direct selling would be akin to shouting about your wares in a party you were never invited in the first place.

Errr…isn't all this focus on conversation just the prelude to creating points for call-to-action? I mean, for instance, with a billboard, people do not have a choice but to see/ notice the message since they pass by that road everyday. Conversations (creating them/ creating a community for them) is akin to laying the road, so that one day, when the time is right, brands can put up the billboard.

Of course, like Dell, they could start with a compelling communication of an offer, so that, that itself serves as the road laying part. But, for those brands that do not have 'offers' that can evolve into call-for-action, they need to prove first that they care for their customers in whichever online vehicle they choose and then start selling in an appropriate manner. Direct selling would be akin to shouting about your wares in a party you were never invited in the first place.

Errr…isn't all this focus on conversation just the prelude to creating points for call-to-action? I mean, for instance, with a billboard, people do not have a choice but to see/ notice the message since they pass by that road everyday. Conversations (creating them/ creating a community for them) is akin to laying the road, so that one day, when the time is right, brands can put up the billboard.

Of course, like Dell, they could start with a compelling communication of an offer, so that, that itself serves as the road laying part. But, for those brands that do not have 'offers' that can evolve into call-for-action, they need to prove first that they care for their customers in whichever online vehicle they choose and then start selling in an appropriate manner. Direct selling would be akin to shouting about your wares in a party you were never invited in the first place.

Errr…isn't all this focus on conversation just the prelude to creating points for call-to-action? I mean, for instance, with a billboard, people do not have a choice but to see/ notice the message since they pass by that road everyday. Conversations (creating them/ creating a community for them) is akin to laying the road, so that one day, when the time is right, brands can put up the billboard.

Of course, like Dell, they could start with a compelling communication of an offer, so that, that itself serves as the road laying part. But, for those brands that do not have 'offers' that can evolve into call-for-action, they need to prove first that they care for their customers in whichever online vehicle they choose and then start selling in an appropriate manner. Direct selling would be akin to shouting about your wares in a party you were never invited in the first place.

Errr…isn't all this focus on conversation just the prelude to creating points for call-to-action? I mean, for instance, with a billboard, people do not have a choice but to see/ notice the message since they pass by that road everyday. Conversations (creating them/ creating a community for them) is akin to laying the road, so that one day, when the time is right, brands can put up the billboard.

Of course, like Dell, they could start with a compelling communication of an offer, so that, that itself serves as the road laying part. But, for those brands that do not have 'offers' that can evolve into call-for-action, they need to prove first that they care for their customers in whichever online vehicle they choose and then start selling in an appropriate manner. Direct selling would be akin to shouting about your wares in a party you were never invited in the first place.

Errr…isn't all this focus on conversation just the prelude to creating points for call-to-action? I mean, for instance, with a billboard, people do not have a choice but to see/ notice the message since they pass by that road everyday. Conversations (creating them/ creating a community for them) is akin to laying the road, so that one day, when the time is right, brands can put up the billboard.

Of course, like Dell, they could start with a compelling communication of an offer, so that, that itself serves as the road laying part. But, for those brands that do not have 'offers' that can evolve into call-for-action, they need to prove first that they care for their customers in whichever online vehicle they choose and then start selling in an appropriate manner. Direct selling would be akin to shouting about your wares in a party you were never invited in the first place.

Thanks, Patrick.

Thanks, Patrick.

Thanks, Patrick.

Thanks, Patrick.

Thanks, Patrick.

Thanks, Patrick.

Great points, Karthik. Thanks for this. It's not that I mean conversations or engagement aren't important or don't count. The point is to say that if you sell that and only that. If that's all you're doing for your clients or companies, you lose. There must be the call to action, the needle movement, the measures of success on the back end of a social media effort or the person selling it is not doing you or your company justice. I like your analogies and we're in agreement. I guess my line in the sand (effect to drive conversation) made my ultimate point a little unclear. But then again, it's driving a nice discussion. I'll take it.

Thanks for joining in!

Great points, Karthik. Thanks for this. It's not that I mean conversations or engagement aren't important or don't count. The point is to say that if you sell that and only that. If that's all you're doing for your clients or companies, you lose. There must be the call to action, the needle movement, the measures of success on the back end of a social media effort or the person selling it is not doing you or your company justice. I like your analogies and we're in agreement. I guess my line in the sand (effect to drive conversation) made my ultimate point a little unclear. But then again, it's driving a nice discussion. I'll take it.

Thanks for joining in!

Great points, Karthik. Thanks for this. It's not that I mean conversations or engagement aren't important or don't count. The point is to say that if you sell that and only that. If that's all you're doing for your clients or companies, you lose. There must be the call to action, the needle movement, the measures of success on the back end of a social media effort or the person selling it is not doing you or your company justice. I like your analogies and we're in agreement. I guess my line in the sand (effect to drive conversation) made my ultimate point a little unclear. But then again, it's driving a nice discussion. I'll take it.

Thanks for joining in!

Great points, Karthik. Thanks for this. It's not that I mean conversations or engagement aren't important or don't count. The point is to say that if you sell that and only that. If that's all you're doing for your clients or companies, you lose. There must be the call to action, the needle movement, the measures of success on the back end of a social media effort or the person selling it is not doing you or your company justice. I like your analogies and we're in agreement. I guess my line in the sand (effect to drive conversation) made my ultimate point a little unclear. But then again, it's driving a nice discussion. I'll take it.

Thanks for joining in!

Great points, Karthik. Thanks for this. It's not that I mean conversations or engagement aren't important or don't count. The point is to say that if you sell that and only that. If that's all you're doing for your clients or companies, you lose. There must be the call to action, the needle movement, the measures of success on the back end of a social media effort or the person selling it is not doing you or your company justice. I like your analogies and we're in agreement. I guess my line in the sand (effect to drive conversation) made my ultimate point a little unclear. But then again, it's driving a nice discussion. I'll take it.

Thanks for joining in!

Great points, Karthik. Thanks for this. It's not that I mean conversations or engagement aren't important or don't count. The point is to say that if you sell that and only that. If that's all you're doing for your clients or companies, you lose. There must be the call to action, the needle movement, the measures of success on the back end of a social media effort or the person selling it is not doing you or your company justice. I like your analogies and we're in agreement. I guess my line in the sand (effect to drive conversation) made my ultimate point a little unclear. But then again, it's driving a nice discussion. I'll take it.

Thanks for joining in!

As some other commenters seem to be saying this is a timely post. There certainly needs to be a periodic assessment of any medium and when it's all boiled down that's what social media is.

It's quite new so it seems important but as with all tools it's what you do with it that counts. Owning a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter.

As some other commenters seem to be saying this is a timely post. There certainly needs to be a periodic assessment of any medium and when it's all boiled down that's what social media is.

It's quite new so it seems important but as with all tools it's what you do with it that counts. Owning a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter.

As some other commenters seem to be saying this is a timely post. There certainly needs to be a periodic assessment of any medium and when it's all boiled down that's what social media is.

It's quite new so it seems important but as with all tools it's what you do with it that counts. Owning a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter.

As some other commenters seem to be saying this is a timely post. There certainly needs to be a periodic assessment of any medium and when it's all boiled down that's what social media is.

It's quite new so it seems important but as with all tools it's what you do with it that counts. Owning a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter.

As some other commenters seem to be saying this is a timely post. There certainly needs to be a periodic assessment of any medium and when it's all boiled down that's what social media is.

It's quite new so it seems important but as with all tools it's what you do with it that counts. Owning a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter.

As some other commenters seem to be saying this is a timely post. There certainly needs to be a periodic assessment of any medium and when it's all boiled down that's what social media is.

It's quite new so it seems important but as with all tools it's what you do with it that counts. Owning a hammer doesn't make you a carpenter.

If I were drinking coffee, it would have come out my nose. Thanks Stu.

If I were drinking coffee, it would have come out my nose. Thanks Stu.

If I were drinking coffee, it would have come out my nose. Thanks Stu.

If I were drinking coffee, it would have come out my nose. Thanks Stu.

If I were drinking coffee, it would have come out my nose. Thanks Stu.

If I were drinking coffee, it would have come out my nose. Thanks Stu.

Slick post Jason

If your intent was to get “attention” then the title and position you took definitely got my attention. Enough to warrant the time for a response.

You nicely threaded the issue but failed to address “methods” for producing results. If your product or service is a commodity well then conversations and relationships don't matter rather price is the attention and attraction point of sale for the markets. Pushing out price on commodity products and services is largely a leverage of attention which social media can facilitate.

On the other hand “markets” represent consumption and the behavior of markets is changing. Results are no longer purely driven by slick marketing and selling methods (social media) rather consumption is now influenced by references, relationships, value and intention. I can buy something at the lowest price point but be disappointed by the experience of the product and the service. The examples you point to are firms whose organizations stand behind their product, their service and whose market reputation reflects those values. The “intent” of these organizations is to increase brand equity through the experience, the price and the relationship with the markets. They take a systemic approach to market relations.

Cluetrain is more than a concept the basic premise of Cluetrain represents the dynamic of markets and how technology is changing those dynamics. Selling and marketing are not the total function of an organization or a market. Markets are indeed shifting to relational dynamics, trust, integrity and subsequently intention is becoming transparent. By the way Doc is releasing another books titled “The Intention Economy” which will further the knowledge of these changing dynamics.

Who can argue your point about driving results? Your message will likely pull more business to you because 99% of the market wants results. However, results don't happen unless you have a well defined and “connected” system of delivering value to a market ready for consumption. But most of the market is still stuck in “legacy thinking” which emphasizes selling and marketing as a media reliant only on messages, reach, price and push.

Market behavior is relevant to the methods used to produce results. Selling is and always will be relational. marketing and advertising are not. With the introduction of social technology market dynamics are changing. Numerous universities supported by the Fortune 500 have initiated studies to better understand these moving dynamics. The economy is demanding more for less and capital is shifting from the currency of the dollar to the currency of market relations and yes conversations.

Your post stirred a conversation. It got my attention and others. Now we'll see the “results” of your post and what it produces. The outcomes will reflect a view of issues and market behavior from those who find your perspectives valuable, entertaining and provocative. However the perspectives from a few doe not reflect the larger market of dynamic changes. The market is much larger and the dynamics more profound then a couple of hundred responses to one post. Just maybe we all need to learn to “listen and learn” from the shifts of a larger market of change.

Now lets see if my response got any other attention like your original position did.

Slick post Jason

If your intent was to get “attention” then the title and position you took definitely got my attention. Enough to warrant the time for a response.

You nicely threaded the issue but failed to address “methods” for producing results. If your product or service is a commodity well then conversations and relationships don't matter rather price is the attention and attraction point of sale for the markets. Pushing out price on commodity products and services is largely a leverage of attention which social media can facilitate.

On the other hand “markets” represent consumption and the behavior of markets is changing. Results are no longer purely driven by slick marketing and selling methods (social media) rather consumption is now influenced by references, relationships, value and intention. I can buy something at the lowest price point but be disappointed by the experience of the product and the service. The examples you point to are firms whose organizations stand behind their product, their service and whose market reputation reflects those values. The “intent” of these organizations is to increase brand equity through the experience, the price and the relationship with the markets. They take a systemic approach to market relations.

Cluetrain is more than a concept the basic premise of Cluetrain represents the dynamic of markets and how technology is changing those dynamics. Selling and marketing are not the total function of an organization or a market. Markets are indeed shifting to relational dynamics, trust, integrity and subsequently intention is becoming transparent. By the way Doc is releasing another books titled “The Intention Economy” which will further the knowledge of these changing dynamics.

Who can argue your point about driving results? Your message will likely pull more business to you because 99% of the market wants results. However, results don't happen unless you have a well defined and “connected” system of delivering value to a market ready for consumption. But most of the market is still stuck in “legacy thinking” which emphasizes selling and marketing as a media reliant only on messages, reach, price and push.

Market behavior is relevant to the methods used to produce results. Selling is and always will be relational. marketing and advertising are not. With the introduction of social technology market dynamics are changing. Numerous universities supported by the Fortune 500 have initiated studies to better understand these moving dynamics. The economy is demanding more for less and capital is shifting from the currency of the dollar to the currency of market relations and yes conversations.

Your post stirred a conversation. It got my attention and others. Now we'll see the “results” of your post and what it produces. The outcomes will reflect a view of issues and market behavior from those who find your perspectives valuable, entertaining and provocative. However the perspectives from a few doe not reflect the larger market of dynamic changes. The market is much larger and the dynamics more profound then a couple of hundred responses to one post. Just maybe we all need to learn to “listen and learn” from the shifts of a larger market of change.

Now lets see if my response got any other attention like your original position did.

Slick post Jason

If your intent was to get “attention” then the title and position you took definitely got my attention. Enough to warrant the time for a response.

You nicely threaded the issue but failed to address “methods” for producing results. If your product or service is a commodity well then conversations and relationships don't matter rather price is the attention and attraction point of sale for the markets. Pushing out price on commodity products and services is largely a leverage of attention which social media can facilitate.

On the other hand “markets” represent consumption and the behavior of markets is changing. Results are no longer purely driven by slick marketing and selling methods (social media) rather consumption is now influenced by references, relationships, value and intention. I can buy something at the lowest price point but be disappointed by the experience of the product and the service. The examples you point to are firms whose organizations stand behind their product, their service and whose market reputation reflects those values. The “intent” of these organizations is to increase brand equity through the experience, the price and the relationship with the markets. They take a systemic approach to market relations.

Cluetrain is more than a concept the basic premise of Cluetrain represents the dynamic of markets and how technology is changing those dynamics. Selling and marketing are not the total function of an organization or a market. Markets are indeed shifting to relational dynamics, trust, integrity and subsequently intention is becoming transparent. By the way Doc is releasing another books titled “The Intention Economy” which will further the knowledge of these changing dynamics.

Who can argue your point about driving results? Your message will likely pull more business to you because 99% of the market wants results. However, results don't happen unless you have a well defined and “connected” system of delivering value to a market ready for consumption. But most of the market is still stuck in “legacy thinking” which emphasizes selling and marketing as a media reliant only on messages, reach, price and push.

Market behavior is relevant to the methods used to produce results. Selling is and always will be relational. marketing and advertising are not. With the introduction of social technology market dynamics are changing. Numerous universities supported by the Fortune 500 have initiated studies to better understand these moving dynamics. The economy is demanding more for less and capital is shifting from the currency of the dollar to the currency of market relations and yes conversations.

Your post stirred a conversation. It got my attention and others. Now we'll see the “results” of your post and what it produces. The outcomes will reflect a view of issues and market behavior from those who find your perspectives valuable, entertaining and provocative. However the perspectives from a few doe not reflect the larger market of dynamic changes. The market is much larger and the dynamics more profound then a couple of hundred responses to one post. Just maybe we all need to learn to “listen and learn” from the shifts of a larger market of change.

Now lets see if my response got any other attention like your original position did.

Slick post Jason

If your intent was to get “attention” then the title and position you took definitely got my attention. Enough to warrant the time for a response.

You nicely threaded the issue but failed to address “methods” for producing results. If your product or service is a commodity well then conversations and relationships don't matter rather price is the attention and attraction point of sale for the markets. Pushing out price on commodity products and services is largely a leverage of attention which social media can facilitate.

On the other hand “markets” represent consumption and the behavior of markets is changing. Results are no longer purely driven by slick marketing and selling methods (social media) rather consumption is now influenced by references, relationships, value and intention. I can buy something at the lowest price point but be disappointed by the experience of the product and the service. The examples you point to are firms whose organizations stand behind their product, their service and whose market reputation reflects those values. The “intent” of these organizations is to increase brand equity through the experience, the price and the relationship with the markets. They take a systemic approach to market relations.

Cluetrain is more than a concept the basic premise of Cluetrain represents the dynamic of markets and how technology is changing those dynamics. Selling and marketing are not the total function of an organization or a market. Markets are indeed shifting to relational dynamics, trust, integrity and subsequently intention is becoming transparent. By the way Doc is releasing another books titled “The Intention Economy” which will further the knowledge of these changing dynamics.

Who can argue your point about driving results? Your message will likely pull more business to you because 99% of the market wants results. However, results don't happen unless you have a well defined and “connected” system of delivering value to a market ready for consumption. But most of the market is still stuck in “legacy thinking” which emphasizes selling and marketing as a media reliant only on messages, reach, price and push.

Market behavior is relevant to the methods used to produce results. Selling is and always will be relational. marketing and advertising are not. With the introduction of social technology market dynamics are changing. Numerous universities supported by the Fortune 500 have initiated studies to better understand these moving dynamics. The economy is demanding more for less and capital is shifting from the currency of the dollar to the currency of market relations and yes conversations.

Your post stirred a conversation. It got my attention and others. Now we'll see the “results” of your post and what it produces. The outcomes will reflect a view of issues and market behavior from those who find your perspectives valuable, entertaining and provocative. However the perspectives from a few doe not reflect the larger market of dynamic changes. The market is much larger and the dynamics more profound then a couple of hundred responses to one post. Just maybe we all need to learn to “listen and learn” from the shifts of a larger market of change.

Now lets see if my response got any other attention like your original position did.

Slick post Jason

If your intent was to get “attention” then the title and position you took definitely got my attention. Enough to warrant the time for a response.

You nicely threaded the issue but failed to address “methods” for producing results. If your product or service is a commodity well then conversations and relationships don't matter rather price is the attention and attraction point of sale for the markets. Pushing out price on commodity products and services is largely a leverage of attention which social media can facilitate.

On the other hand “markets” represent consumption and the behavior of markets is changing. Results are no longer purely driven by slick marketing and selling methods (social media) rather consumption is now influenced by references, relationships, value and intention. I can buy something at the lowest price point but be disappointed by the experience of the product and the service. The examples you point to are firms whose organizations stand behind their product, their service and whose market reputation reflects those values. The “intent” of these organizations is to increase brand equity through the experience, the price and the relationship with the markets. They take a systemic approach to market relations.

Cluetrain is more than a concept the basic premise of Cluetrain represents the dynamic of markets and how technology is changing those dynamics. Selling and marketing are not the total function of an organization or a market. Markets are indeed shifting to relational dynamics, trust, integrity and subsequently intention is becoming transparent. By the way Doc is releasing another books titled “The Intention Economy” which will further the knowledge of these changing dynamics.

Who can argue your point about driving results? Your message will likely pull more business to you because 99% of the market wants results. However, results don't happen unless you have a well defined and “connected” system of delivering value to a market ready for consumption. But most of the market is still stuck in “legacy thinking” which emphasizes selling and marketing as a media reliant only on messages, reach, price and push.

Market behavior is relevant to the methods used to produce results. Selling is and always will be relational. marketing and advertising are not. With the introduction of social technology market dynamics are changing. Numerous universities supported by the Fortune 500 have initiated studies to better understand these moving dynamics. The economy is demanding more for less and capital is shifting from the currency of the dollar to the currency of market relations and yes conversations.

Your post stirred a conversation. It got my attention and others. Now we'll see the “results” of your post and what it produces. The outcomes will reflect a view of issues and market behavior from those who find your perspectives valuable, entertaining and provocative. However the perspectives from a few doe not reflect the larger market of dynamic changes. The market is much larger and the dynamics more profound then a couple of hundred responses to one post. Just maybe we all need to learn to “listen and learn” from the shifts of a larger market of change.

Now lets see if my response got any other attention like your original position did.

Slick post Jason

If your intent was to get “attention” then the title and position you took definitely got my attention. Enough to warrant the time for a response.

You nicely threaded the issue but failed to address “methods” for producing results. If your product or service is a commodity well then conversations and relationships don't matter rather price is the attention and attraction point of sale for the markets. Pushing out price on commodity products and services is largely a leverage of attention which social media can facilitate.

On the other hand “markets” represent consumption and the behavior of markets is changing. Results are no longer purely driven by slick marketing and selling methods (social media) rather consumption is now influenced by references, relationships, value and intention. I can buy something at the lowest price point but be disappointed by the experience of the product and the service. The examples you point to are firms whose organizations stand behind their product, their service and whose market reputation reflects those values. The “intent” of these organizations is to increase brand equity through the experience, the price and the relationship with the markets. They take a systemic approach to market relations.

Cluetrain is more than a concept the basic premise of Cluetrain represents the dynamic of markets and how technology is changing those dynamics. Selling and marketing are not the total function of an organization or a market. Markets are indeed shifting to relational dynamics, trust, integrity and subsequently intention is becoming transparent. By the way Doc is releasing another books titled “The Intention Economy” which will further the knowledge of these changing dynamics.

Who can argue your point about driving results? Your message will likely pull more business to you because 99% of the market wants results. However, results don't happen unless you have a well defined and “connected” system of delivering value to a market ready for consumption. But most of the market is still stuck in “legacy thinking” which emphasizes selling and marketing as a media reliant only on messages, reach, price and push.

Market behavior is relevant to the methods used to produce results. Selling is and always will be relational. marketing and advertising are not. With the introduction of social technology market dynamics are changing. Numerous universities supported by the Fortune 500 have initiated studies to better understand these moving dynamics. The economy is demanding more for less and capital is shifting from the currency of the dollar to the currency of market relations and yes conversations.

Your post stirred a conversation. It got my attention and others. Now we'll see the “results” of your post and what it produces. The outcomes will reflect a view of issues and market behavior from those who find your perspectives valuable, entertaining and provocative. However the perspectives from a few doe not reflect the larger market of dynamic changes. The market is much larger and the dynamics more profound then a couple of hundred responses to one post. Just maybe we all need to learn to “listen and learn” from the shifts of a larger market of change.

Now lets see if my response got any other attention like your original position did.

Thank you, so much, Shannon for sharing that. It's not easy to look back and recognize mistakes or missed opportunities. I've done that quite a bit in my professional life. And thanks for showing a real world example of what I'm talking about. I'm not for getting rid of purists. I'm a purist. But I'm one that has learned that with the conversation must come conversion. Or we're just selling fluff. Thanks again. Glad you've made the migration to the practical puritanism of social media. Heh.

Thank you, so much, Shannon for sharing that. It's not easy to look back and recognize mistakes or missed opportunities. I've done that quite a bit in my professional life. And thanks for showing a real world example of what I'm talking about. I'm not for getting rid of purists. I'm a purist. But I'm one that has learned that with the conversation must come conversion. Or we're just selling fluff. Thanks again. Glad you've made the migration to the practical puritanism of social media. Heh.

Thank you, so much, Shannon for sharing that. It's not easy to look back and recognize mistakes or missed opportunities. I've done that quite a bit in my professional life. And thanks for showing a real world example of what I'm talking about. I'm not for getting rid of purists. I'm a purist. But I'm one that has learned that with the conversation must come conversion. Or we're just selling fluff. Thanks again. Glad you've made the migration to the practical puritanism of social media. Heh.

Thank you, so much, Shannon for sharing that. It's not easy to look back and recognize mistakes or missed opportunities. I've done that quite a bit in my professional life. And thanks for showing a real world example of what I'm talking about. I'm not for getting rid of purists. I'm a purist. But I'm one that has learned that with the conversation must come conversion. Or we're just selling fluff. Thanks again. Glad you've made the migration to the practical puritanism of social media. Heh.

Thank you, so much, Shannon for sharing that. It's not easy to look back and recognize mistakes or missed opportunities. I've done that quite a bit in my professional life. And thanks for showing a real world example of what I'm talking about. I'm not for getting rid of purists. I'm a purist. But I'm one that has learned that with the conversation must come conversion. Or we're just selling fluff. Thanks again. Glad you've made the migration to the practical puritanism of social media. Heh.

Thank you, so much, Shannon for sharing that. It's not easy to look back and recognize mistakes or missed opportunities. I've done that quite a bit in my professional life. And thanks for showing a real world example of what I'm talking about. I'm not for getting rid of purists. I'm a purist. But I'm one that has learned that with the conversation must come conversion. Or we're just selling fluff. Thanks again. Glad you've made the migration to the practical puritanism of social media. Heh.

Thanks, Cheryl. And I would argue that anyone on the social side of the aisle is probably a hippie in businessperson's clothing. Nice one.

Thanks, Cheryl. And I would argue that anyone on the social side of the aisle is probably a hippie in businessperson's clothing. Nice one.

Thanks, Cheryl. And I would argue that anyone on the social side of the aisle is probably a hippie in businessperson's clothing. Nice one.

Thanks, Cheryl. And I would argue that anyone on the social side of the aisle is probably a hippie in businessperson's clothing. Nice one.

Thanks, Cheryl. And I would argue that anyone on the social side of the aisle is probably a hippie in businessperson's clothing. Nice one.

Thanks, Cheryl. And I would argue that anyone on the social side of the aisle is probably a hippie in businessperson's clothing. Nice one.

Agree, agree, Mr. Steve. Thanks for the input.

Agree, agree, Mr. Steve. Thanks for the input.

Agree, agree, Mr. Steve. Thanks for the input.

Agree, agree, Mr. Steve. Thanks for the input.

Agree, agree, Mr. Steve. Thanks for the input.

Agree, agree, Mr. Steve. Thanks for the input.

Excellent Mike. Thanks for the how-to reminder for folks there. Much appreciated.

Excellent Mike. Thanks for the how-to reminder for folks there. Much appreciated.

Excellent Mike. Thanks for the how-to reminder for folks there. Much appreciated.

Excellent Mike. Thanks for the how-to reminder for folks there. Much appreciated.

Excellent Mike. Thanks for the how-to reminder for folks there. Much appreciated.

Excellent Mike. Thanks for the how-to reminder for folks there. Much appreciated.

Yes Yes Yes.

I have often called myself a Social Media Pragmatist. I agree the days of Social Media Purists are numbered. Here is a fuller response:

Social Media Pragmatists beat Purists

Good work
Charlie
FreshNetworks

Yes Yes Yes.

I have often called myself a Social Media Pragmatist. I agree the days of Social Media Purists are numbered. Here is a fuller response:

Social Media Pragmatists beat Purists

Good work
Charlie
FreshNetworks

Yes Yes Yes.

I have often called myself a Social Media Pragmatist. I agree the days of Social Media Purists are numbered. Here is a fuller response:

Social Media Pragmatists beat Purists

Good work
Charlie
FreshNetworks

Yes Yes Yes.

I have often called myself a Social Media Pragmatist. I agree the days of Social Media Purists are numbered. Here is a fuller response:

Social Media Pragmatists beat Purists

Good work
Charlie
FreshNetworks

Yes Yes Yes.

I have often called myself a Social Media Pragmatist. I agree the days of Social Media Purists are numbered. Here is a fuller response:

Social Media Pragmatists beat Purists

Good work
Charlie
FreshNetworks

Yes Yes Yes.

I have often called myself a Social Media Pragmatist. I agree the days of Social Media Purists are numbered. Here is a fuller response:

Social Media Pragmatists beat Purists

Good work
Charlie
FreshNetworks

Phew..was just worried that my tone may have been a bit abrasive – thanks for understanding. Even though I cringe on the use of the cliche 'moving the needle', that precisely should be the yardstick for those conversation-based campaigns. Thanks for this post…made me think; very few blogs do that in these days of social media noise.

Phew..was just worried that my tone may have been a bit abrasive – thanks for understanding. Even though I cringe on the use of the cliche 'moving the needle', that precisely should be the yardstick for those conversation-based campaigns. Thanks for this post…made me think; very few blogs do that in these days of social media noise.

Phew..was just worried that my tone may have been a bit abrasive – thanks for understanding. Even though I cringe on the use of the cliche 'moving the needle', that precisely should be the yardstick for those conversation-based campaigns. Thanks for this post…made me think; very few blogs do that in these days of social media noise.

Phew..was just worried that my tone may have been a bit abrasive – thanks for understanding. Even though I cringe on the use of the cliche 'moving the needle', that precisely should be the yardstick for those conversation-based campaigns. Thanks for this post…made me think; very few blogs do that in these days of social media noise.

Phew..was just worried that my tone may have been a bit abrasive – thanks for understanding. Even though I cringe on the use of the cliche 'moving the needle', that precisely should be the yardstick for those conversation-based campaigns. Thanks for this post…made me think; very few blogs do that in these days of social media noise.

Phew..was just worried that my tone may have been a bit abrasive – thanks for understanding. Even though I cringe on the use of the cliche 'moving the needle', that precisely should be the yardstick for those conversation-based campaigns. Thanks for this post…made me think; very few blogs do that in these days of social media noise.

Well said, Jeremy. Thanks for this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Social media can drive business. My hope was that this post will force us all to remember the realities of that statement. Driving business is the goal. Doesn't mean we have to violate the purities of social media, just that we have to use them smartly. Thanks!

Well said, Jeremy. Thanks for this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Social media can drive business. My hope was that this post will force us all to remember the realities of that statement. Driving business is the goal. Doesn't mean we have to violate the purities of social media, just that we have to use them smartly. Thanks!

Well said, Jeremy. Thanks for this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Social media can drive business. My hope was that this post will force us all to remember the realities of that statement. Driving business is the goal. Doesn't mean we have to violate the purities of social media, just that we have to use them smartly. Thanks!

Well said, Jeremy. Thanks for this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Social media can drive business. My hope was that this post will force us all to remember the realities of that statement. Driving business is the goal. Doesn't mean we have to violate the purities of social media, just that we have to use them smartly. Thanks!

Well said, Jeremy. Thanks for this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Social media can drive business. My hope was that this post will force us all to remember the realities of that statement. Driving business is the goal. Doesn't mean we have to violate the purities of social media, just that we have to use them smartly. Thanks!

Well said, Jeremy. Thanks for this. I agree with you wholeheartedly. Social media can drive business. My hope was that this post will force us all to remember the realities of that statement. Driving business is the goal. Doesn't mean we have to violate the purities of social media, just that we have to use them smartly. Thanks!

What I feel good about is that you are making a conversation over here. You may not reply to this.

Great post, and I am a big fan. Cheers.

I made my point, and you made yours.

What I feel good about is that you are making a conversation over here. You may not reply to this.

Great post, and I am a big fan. Cheers.

I made my point, and you made yours.

What I feel good about is that you are making a conversation over here. You may not reply to this.

Great post, and I am a big fan. Cheers.

I made my point, and you made yours.

What I feel good about is that you are making a conversation over here. You may not reply to this.

Great post, and I am a big fan. Cheers.

I made my point, and you made yours.

What I feel good about is that you are making a conversation over here. You may not reply to this.

Great post, and I am a big fan. Cheers.

I made my point, and you made yours.

What I feel good about is that you are making a conversation over here. You may not reply to this.

Great post, and I am a big fan. Cheers.

I made my point, and you made yours.

Good thoughts, Andre. And I don't think every communications platform needs to be exploited for commercial/corporate benefit, but understand that even collaborative platforms that have proven useful like MyStarbucks.com and Dell's Idea Storm have business metrics tied to their success. It's not all gather-in-a-circle-and-sing-Kumbaya. It's how does this effort, though social and championed by the purists in the crowd, move the needle and drive business? If Idea Storm wasn't doing that in some way, Dell wouldn't invest in it. That's just how business works.

If I own a company and the livelihood and well being of my employees and family is on the line, I'm not paying to support a social media effort that isn't driving consumer transaction, not just engagement, in my company or its products. Yes, there are ancillary and harder to measure benefits like exploration, etc., but if that exploration doesn't lead to profitability or business goal accomplishment, in most companies it won't last.

Thanks for the well said feedback!

Good thoughts, Andre. And I don't think every communications platform needs to be exploited for commercial/corporate benefit, but understand that even collaborative platforms that have proven useful like MyStarbucks.com and Dell's Idea Storm have business metrics tied to their success. It's not all gather-in-a-circle-and-sing-Kumbaya. It's how does this effort, though social and championed by the purists in the crowd, move the needle and drive business? If Idea Storm wasn't doing that in some way, Dell wouldn't invest in it. That's just how business works.

If I own a company and the livelihood and well being of my employees and family is on the line, I'm not paying to support a social media effort that isn't driving consumer transaction, not just engagement, in my company or its products. Yes, there are ancillary and harder to measure benefits like exploration, etc., but if that exploration doesn't lead to profitability or business goal accomplishment, in most companies it won't last.

Thanks for the well said feedback!

Good thoughts, Andre. And I don't think every communications platform needs to be exploited for commercial/corporate benefit, but understand that even collaborative platforms that have proven useful like MyStarbucks.com and Dell's Idea Storm have business metrics tied to their success. It's not all gather-in-a-circle-and-sing-Kumbaya. It's how does this effort, though social and championed by the purists in the crowd, move the needle and drive business? If Idea Storm wasn't doing that in some way, Dell wouldn't invest in it. That's just how business works.

If I own a company and the livelihood and well being of my employees and family is on the line, I'm not paying to support a social media effort that isn't driving consumer transaction, not just engagement, in my company or its products. Yes, there are ancillary and harder to measure benefits like exploration, etc., but if that exploration doesn't lead to profitability or business goal accomplishment, in most companies it won't last.

Thanks for the well said feedback!

Good thoughts, Andre. And I don't think every communications platform needs to be exploited for commercial/corporate benefit, but understand that even collaborative platforms that have proven useful like MyStarbucks.com and Dell's Idea Storm have business metrics tied to their success. It's not all gather-in-a-circle-and-sing-Kumbaya. It's how does this effort, though social and championed by the purists in the crowd, move the needle and drive business? If Idea Storm wasn't doing that in some way, Dell wouldn't invest in it. That's just how business works.

If I own a company and the livelihood and well being of my employees and family is on the line, I'm not paying to support a social media effort that isn't driving consumer transaction, not just engagement, in my company or its products. Yes, there are ancillary and harder to measure benefits like exploration, etc., but if that exploration doesn't lead to profitability or business goal accomplishment, in most companies it won't last.

Thanks for the well said feedback!

Good thoughts, Andre. And I don't think every communications platform needs to be exploited for commercial/corporate benefit, but understand that even collaborative platforms that have proven useful like MyStarbucks.com and Dell's Idea Storm have business metrics tied to their success. It's not all gather-in-a-circle-and-sing-Kumbaya. It's how does this effort, though social and championed by the purists in the crowd, move the needle and drive business? If Idea Storm wasn't doing that in some way, Dell wouldn't invest in it. That's just how business works.

If I own a company and the livelihood and well being of my employees and family is on the line, I'm not paying to support a social media effort that isn't driving consumer transaction, not just engagement, in my company or its products. Yes, there are ancillary and harder to measure benefits like exploration, etc., but if that exploration doesn't lead to profitability or business goal accomplishment, in most companies it won't last.

Thanks for the well said feedback!

Good thoughts, Andre. And I don't think every communications platform needs to be exploited for commercial/corporate benefit, but understand that even collaborative platforms that have proven useful like MyStarbucks.com and Dell's Idea Storm have business metrics tied to their success. It's not all gather-in-a-circle-and-sing-Kumbaya. It's how does this effort, though social and championed by the purists in the crowd, move the needle and drive business? If Idea Storm wasn't doing that in some way, Dell wouldn't invest in it. That's just how business works.

If I own a company and the livelihood and well being of my employees and family is on the line, I'm not paying to support a social media effort that isn't driving consumer transaction, not just engagement, in my company or its products. Yes, there are ancillary and harder to measure benefits like exploration, etc., but if that exploration doesn't lead to profitability or business goal accomplishment, in most companies it won't last.

Thanks for the well said feedback!

Great post! I also agree….social media is a tactic, not a strategy; and should be included as part of an overall marketing strategy.

Great post! I also agree….social media is a tactic, not a strategy; and should be included as part of an overall marketing strategy.

Great post! I also agree….social media is a tactic, not a strategy; and should be included as part of an overall marketing strategy.

Great post! I also agree….social media is a tactic, not a strategy; and should be included as part of an overall marketing strategy.

Great post! I also agree….social media is a tactic, not a strategy; and should be included as part of an overall marketing strategy.

Great post! I also agree….social media is a tactic, not a strategy; and should be included as part of an overall marketing strategy.

Executives were willing to take social media on faith for only so long. At least in the B2B space, more and more companies realize that social media can be a useful marketing tool, but whatever the goal someone is going to come knocking for hard numbers. Of course to do social media marketing effectively you need to have already satisfied the engagement question, something more successful companies can do with or without social media. Those who continue to fly the social media for engagement's sake only miss the point and potential of a successful social media strategy. Businesses need to see tangible measurable returns sooner rather than later. Businesses don't need more social media “soft” rock stars; they need Pete Townshend not James Taylor.

Executives were willing to take social media on faith for only so long. At least in the B2B space, more and more companies realize that social media can be a useful marketing tool, but whatever the goal someone is going to come knocking for hard numbers. Of course to do social media marketing effectively you need to have already satisfied the engagement question, something more successful companies can do with or without social media. Those who continue to fly the social media for engagement's sake only miss the point and potential of a successful social media strategy. Businesses need to see tangible measurable returns sooner rather than later. Businesses don't need more social media “soft” rock stars; they need Pete Townshend not James Taylor.

Executives were willing to take social media on faith for only so long. At least in the B2B space, more and more companies realize that social media can be a useful marketing tool, but whatever the goal someone is going to come knocking for hard numbers. Of course to do social media marketing effectively you need to have already satisfied the engagement question, something more successful companies can do with or without social media. Those who continue to fly the social media for engagement's sake only miss the point and potential of a successful social media strategy. Businesses need to see tangible measurable returns sooner rather than later. Businesses don't need more social media “soft” rock stars; they need Pete Townshend not James Taylor.

Executives were willing to take social media on faith for only so long. At least in the B2B space, more and more companies realize that social media can be a useful marketing tool, but whatever the goal someone is going to come knocking for hard numbers. Of course to do social media marketing effectively you need to have already satisfied the engagement question, something more successful companies can do with or without social media. Those who continue to fly the social media for engagement's sake only miss the point and potential of a successful social media strategy. Businesses need to see tangible measurable returns sooner rather than later. Businesses don't need more social media “soft” rock stars; they need Pete Townshend not James Taylor.

Executives were willing to take social media on faith for only so long. At least in the B2B space, more and more companies realize that social media can be a useful marketing tool, but whatever the goal someone is going to come knocking for hard numbers. Of course to do social media marketing effectively you need to have already satisfied the engagement question, something more successful companies can do with or without social media. Those who continue to fly the social media for engagement's sake only miss the point and potential of a successful social media strategy. Businesses need to see tangible measurable returns sooner rather than later. Businesses don't need more social media “soft” rock stars; they need Pete Townshend not James Taylor.

Executives were willing to take social media on faith for only so long. At least in the B2B space, more and more companies realize that social media can be a useful marketing tool, but whatever the goal someone is going to come knocking for hard numbers. Of course to do social media marketing effectively you need to have already satisfied the engagement question, something more successful companies can do with or without social media. Those who continue to fly the social media for engagement's sake only miss the point and potential of a successful social media strategy. Businesses need to see tangible measurable returns sooner rather than later. Businesses don't need more social media “soft” rock stars; they need Pete Townshend not James Taylor.

Phones ringing, tills bleeping, the tundle of footfall. I'm day 4 of a Social Media Marketing course; one of the delegates is from the public sector – nothing to sell, no hidden agenda, no sales mantra to be voiced.
Or have they?
Of course they have! Without disclosing exactly the 'what' is, they need an efficient, real-time, 'almost without a budget', form of marketing/spraeding the word/connecting with their 'customers'.
Monetization is in some circles, one of the dirtiest words? Perhaps.
Provided no-one sells out for 30 pieces of silver, then the world revolves on it, like it, loth it, love it, whatever it.
~nuff said.

Phones ringing, tills bleeping, the tundle of footfall. I'm day 4 of a Social Media Marketing course; one of the delegates is from the public sector – nothing to sell, no hidden agenda, no sales mantra to be voiced.
Or have they?
Of course they have! Without disclosing exactly the 'what' is, they need an efficient, real-time, 'almost without a budget', form of marketing/spraeding the word/connecting with their 'customers'.
Monetization is in some circles, one of the dirtiest words? Perhaps.
Provided no-one sells out for 30 pieces of silver, then the world revolves on it, like it, lothe it, love it, whatever it.
~nuff said.

Phones ringing, tills bleeping, the tundle of footfall. I'm day 4 of a Social Media Marketing course; one of the delegates is from the public sector – nothing to sell, no hidden agenda, no sales mantra to be voiced.
Or have they?
Of course they have! Without disclosing exactly the 'what' is, they need an efficient, real-time, 'almost without a budget', form of marketing/spraeding the word/connecting with their 'customers'.
Monetization is in some circles, one of the dirtiest words? Perhaps.
Provided no-one sells out for 30 pieces of silver, then the world revolves on it, like it, lothe it, love it, whatever it.
~nuff said.

Phones ringing, tills bleeping, the tundle of footfall. I'm day 4 of a Social Media Marketing course; one of the delegates is from the public sector – nothing to sell, no hidden agenda, no sales mantra to be voiced.
Or have they?
Of course they have! Without disclosing exactly the 'what' is, they need an efficient, real-time, 'almost without a budget', form of marketing/spraeding the word/connecting with their 'customers'.
Monetization is in some circles, one of the dirtiest words? Perhaps.
Provided no-one sells out for 30 pieces of silver, then the world revolves on it, like it, lothe it, love it, whatever it.
~nuff said.

Phones ringing, tills bleeping, the tundle of footfall. I'm day 4 of a Social Media Marketing course; one of the delegates is from the public sector – nothing to sell, no hidden agenda, no sales mantra to be voiced.
Or have they?
Of course they have! Without disclosing exactly the 'what' is, they need an efficient, real-time, 'almost without a budget', form of marketing/spraeding the word/connecting with their 'customers'.
Monetization is in some circles, one of the dirtiest words? Perhaps.
Provided no-one sells out for 30 pieces of silver, then the world revolves on it, like it, lothe it, love it, whatever it.
~nuff said.

Phones ringing, tills bleeping, the tundle of footfall. I'm day 4 of a Social Media Marketing course; one of the delegates is from the public sector – nothing to sell, no hidden agenda, no sales mantra to be voiced.
Or have they?
Of course they have! Without disclosing exactly the 'what' is, they need an efficient, real-time, 'almost without a budget', form of marketing/spraeding the word/connecting with their 'customers'.
Monetization is in some circles, one of the dirtiest words? Perhaps.
Provided no-one sells out for 30 pieces of silver, then the world revolves on it, like it, lothe it, love it, whatever it.
~nuff said.

Phones ringing, tills bleeping, the tundle of footfall. I'm day 4 of a Social Media Marketing course; one of the delegates is from the public sector – nothing to sell, no hidden agenda, no sales mantra to be voiced.
Or have they?
Of course they have! Without disclosing exactly the 'what' is, they need an efficient, real-time, 'almost without a budget', form of marketing/spraeding the word/connecting with their 'customers'.
Monetization is in some circles, one of the dirtiest words? Perhaps.
Provided no-one sells out for 30 pieces of silver, then the world revolves on it, like it, lothe it, love it, whatever it.
~nuff said.

Great post Jason. Reality is sometimes painful.

At the end of the day, it is about achieving objectives and getting business done, though we tend to lose sight of this. Nice conversation alone doesn't pay the bills. Good reminder to develop our social media strategies and tactics around what are ultimately “hard” goals (while still leveraging the power of these tools to build community, augment customer service, strengthen thought leadership, etc.)

Eric Brody
http://www.twitter.com/ericbrody

Great post Jason. Reality is sometimes painful.

At the end of the day, it is about achieving objectives and getting business done, though we tend to lose sight of this. Nice conversation alone doesn't pay the bills. Good reminder to develop our social media strategies and tactics around what are ultimately “hard” goals (while still leveraging the power of these tools to build community, augment customer service, strengthen thought leadership, etc.)

Eric Brody
http://www.twitter.com/ericbrody

Great post Jason. Reality is sometimes painful.

At the end of the day, it is about achieving objectives and getting business done, though we tend to lose sight of this. Nice conversation alone doesn't pay the bills. Good reminder to develop our social media strategies and tactics around what are ultimately “hard” goals (while still leveraging the power of these tools to build community, augment customer service, strengthen thought leadership, etc.)

Eric Brody
http://www.twitter.com/ericbrody

Great post Jason. Reality is sometimes painful.

At the end of the day, it is about achieving objectives and getting business done, though we tend to lose sight of this. Nice conversation alone doesn't pay the bills. Good reminder to develop our social media strategies and tactics around what are ultimately “hard” goals (while still leveraging the power of these tools to build community, augment customer service, strengthen thought leadership, etc.)

Eric Brody
http://www.twitter.com/ericbrody

Great post Jason. Reality is sometimes painful.

At the end of the day, it is about achieving objectives and getting business done, though we tend to lose sight of this. Nice conversation alone doesn't pay the bills. Good reminder to develop our social media strategies and tactics around what are ultimately “hard” goals (while still leveraging the power of these tools to build community, augment customer service, strengthen thought leadership, etc.)

Eric Brody
http://www.twitter.com/ericbrody

Great post Jason. Reality is sometimes painful.

At the end of the day, it is about achieving objectives and getting business done, though we tend to lose sight of this. Nice conversation alone doesn't pay the bills. Good reminder to develop our social media strategies and tactics around what are ultimately “hard” goals (while still leveraging the power of these tools to build community, augment customer service, strengthen thought leadership, etc.)

Eric Brody
http://www.twitter.com/ericbrody

I'm no social media purist. I'm the guy “your (social media) mother warned you about.” I'm a sales purist. Been in sales all my life. But I'm also a social media/networking evangelist. Why? So glad you asked…. because it feeds the sales process. No sale happens without prospects. THAT is what social media (for business specifically) brings to the table. How you treat your prospects circles you all the way back to sales 101… please allow me to explain… and this does actually feed back into the hippie (social media purist) state of mind (heck.. I have facial hair.)

Sales 101:
- Meet and Greet (friend request)
- Build raport (LISTEN, ENGAGE and find common ground
- Assess needs (ask questions.. then shut up and listen)
- Align solution with needs. (Requires interaction via engagement)
- Test close to be sure your on target (again requires engagement)
- Close the deal: Ask for the biz

People need to quit hate'n on salespeople. I'm an ex car guy… believe me… I understand where the bad rap comes from. However, and I hope folks agree; commerce makes the world go round. After looking up the exact definition of “commerce” to be sure I was speaking accurately, I'm a bit shocked at how the various meanings of commerce actually apply to this discussion. I was was referring to definition 1. But 2 and 4 actually speak to the social media purist. But, I think number 3 is illegal in most states. LOL .. see for yourself: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/commerce

ok.. I'm losing my train of thought and running low on time. Need to get back to work. One question though:

How many of you shudder at the idea of me posting here with an avatar reflecting my BRAND?!?!?!? Be honest.

Thanks, Jason. This was fun. And.. I know you are “listening” because you actually reply to comments. Kudos.

I'm no social media purist. I'm the guy “your (social media) mother warned you about.” I'm a sales purist. Been in sales all my life. But I'm also a social media/networking evangelist. Why? So glad you asked…. because it feeds the sales process. No sale happens without prospects. THAT is what social media (for business specifically) brings to the table. How you treat your prospects circles you all the way back to sales 101… please allow me to explain… and this does actually feed back into the hippie (social media purist) state of mind (heck.. I have facial hair.)

Sales 101:
- Meet and Greet (friend request)
- Build raport (LISTEN, ENGAGE and find common ground
- Assess needs (ask questions.. then shut up and listen)
- Align solution with needs. (Requires interaction via engagement)
- Test close to be sure your on target (again requires engagement)
- Close the deal: Ask for the biz

People need to quit hate'n on salespeople. I'm an ex car guy… believe me… I understand where the bad rap comes from. However, and I hope folks agree; commerce makes the world go round. After looking up the exact definition of “commerce” to be sure I was speaking accurately, I'm a bit shocked at how the various meanings of commerce actually apply to this discussion. I was was referring to definition 1. But 2 and 4 actually speak to the social media purist. But, I think number 3 is illegal in most states. LOL .. see for yourself: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/commerce

ok.. I'm losing my train of thought and running low on time. Need to get back to work. One question though:

How many of you shudder at the idea of me posting here with an avatar reflecting my BRAND?!?!?!? Be honest.

Thanks, Jason. This was fun. And.. I know you are “listening” because you actually reply to comments. Kudos.

I'm no social media purist. I'm the guy “your (social media) mother warned you about.” I'm a sales purist. Been in sales all my life. But I'm also a social media/networking evangelist. Why? So glad you asked…. because it feeds the sales process. No sale happens without prospects. THAT is what social media (for business specifically) brings to the table. How you treat your prospects circles you all the way back to sales 101… please allow me to explain… and this does actually feed back into the hippie (social media purist) state of mind (heck.. I have facial hair.)

Sales 101:
- Meet and Greet (friend request)
- Build raport (LISTEN, ENGAGE and find common ground
- Assess needs (ask questions.. then shut up and listen)
- Align solution with needs. (Requires interaction via engagement)
- Test close to be sure your on target (again requires engagement)
- Close the deal: Ask for the biz

People need to quit hate'n on salespeople. I'm an ex car guy… believe me… I understand where the bad rap comes from. However, and I hope folks agree; commerce makes the world go round. After looking up the exact definition of “commerce” to be sure I was speaking accurately, I'm a bit shocked at how the various meanings of commerce actually apply to this discussion. I was was referring to definition 1. But 2 and 4 actually speak to the social media purist. But, I think number 3 is illegal in most states. LOL .. see for yourself: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/commerce

ok.. I'm losing my train of thought and running low on time. Need to get back to work. One question though:

How many of you shudder at the idea of me posting here with an avatar reflecting my BRAND?!?!?!? Be honest.

Thanks, Jason. This was fun. And.. I know you are “listening” because you actually reply to comments. Kudos.

I'm no social media purist. I'm the guy “your (social media) mother warned you about.” I'm a sales purist. Been in sales all my life. But I'm also a social media/networking evangelist. Why? So glad you asked…. because it feeds the sales process. No sale happens without prospects. THAT is what social media (for business specifically) brings to the table. How you treat your prospects circles you all the way back to sales 101… please allow me to explain… and this does actually feed back into the hippie (social media purist) state of mind (heck.. I have facial hair.)

Sales 101:
- Meet and Greet (friend request)
- Build raport (LISTEN, ENGAGE and find common ground
- Assess needs (ask questions.. then shut up and listen)
- Align solution with needs. (Requires interaction via engagement)
- Test close to be sure your on target (again requires engagement)
- Close the deal: Ask for the biz

People need to quit hate'n on salespeople. I'm an ex car guy… believe me… I understand where the bad rap comes from. However, and I hope folks agree; commerce makes the world go round. After looking up the exact definition of “commerce” to be sure I was speaking accurately, I'm a bit shocked at how the various meanings of commerce actually apply to this discussion. I was was referring to definition 1. But 2 and 4 actually speak to the social media purist. But, I think number 3 is illegal in most states. LOL .. see for yourself: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/commerce

ok.. I'm losing my train of thought and running low on time. Need to get back to work. One question though:

How many of you shudder at the idea of me posting here with an avatar reflecting my BRAND?!?!?!? Be honest.

Thanks, Jason. This was fun. And.. I know you are “listening” because you actually reply to comments. Kudos.

I'm no social media purist. I'm the guy “your (social media) mother warned you about.” I'm a sales purist. Been in sales all my life. But I'm also a social media/networking evangelist. Why? So glad you asked…. because it feeds the sales process. No sale happens without prospects. THAT is what social media (for business specifically) brings to the table. How you treat your prospects circles you all the way back to sales 101… please allow me to explain… and this does actually feed back into the hippie (social media purist) state of mind (heck.. I have facial hair.)

Sales 101:
- Meet and Greet (friend request)
- Build raport (LISTEN, ENGAGE and find common ground
- Assess needs (ask questions.. then shut up and listen)
- Align solution with needs. (Requires interaction via engagement)
- Test close to be sure your on target (again requires engagement)
- Close the deal: Ask for the biz

People need to quit hate'n on salespeople. I'm an ex car guy… believe me… I understand where the bad rap comes from. However, and I hope folks agree; commerce makes the world go round. After looking up the exact definition of “commerce” to be sure I was speaking accurately, I'm a bit shocked at how the various meanings of commerce actually apply to this discussion. I was was referring to definition 1. But 2 and 4 actually speak to the social media purist. But, I think number 3 is illegal in most states. LOL .. see for yourself: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/commerce

ok.. I'm losing my train of thought and running low on time. Need to get back to work. One question though:

How many of you shudder at the idea of me posting here with an avatar reflecting my BRAND?!?!?!? Be honest.

Thanks, Jason. This was fun. And.. I know you are “listening” because you actually reply to comments. Kudos.

I'm no social media purist. I'm the guy “your (social media) mother warned you about.” I'm a sales purist. Been in sales all my life. But I'm also a social media/networking evangelist. Why? So glad you asked…. because it feeds the sales process. No sale happens without prospects. THAT is what social media (for business specifically) brings to the table. How you treat your prospects circles you all the way back to sales 101… please allow me to explain… and this does actually feed back into the hippie (social media purist) state of mind (heck.. I have facial hair.)

Sales 101:
- Meet and Greet (friend request)
- Build raport (LISTEN, ENGAGE and find common ground
- Assess needs (ask questions.. then shut up and listen)
- Align solution with needs. (Requires interaction via engagement)
- Test close to be sure your on target (again requires engagement)
- Close the deal: Ask for the biz

People need to quit hate'n on salespeople. I'm an ex car guy… believe me… I understand where the bad rap comes from. However, and I hope folks agree; commerce makes the world go round. After looking up the exact definition of “commerce” to be sure I was speaking accurately, I'm a bit shocked at how the various meanings of commerce actually apply to this discussion. I was was referring to definition 1. But 2 and 4 actually speak to the social media purist. But, I think number 3 is illegal in most states. LOL .. see for yourself: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/commerce

ok.. I'm losing my train of thought and running low on time. Need to get back to work. One question though:

How many of you shudder at the idea of me posting here with an avatar reflecting my BRAND?!?!?!? Be honest.

Thanks, Jason. This was fun. And.. I know you are “listening” because you actually reply to comments. Kudos.

Excellent post, Jason. And you are absolutely correct. That's why many of the so-called social media gurus, experts, jedis and evangelists will ultimately fail. They are not marketers. They are bandwagon jumper oners (made that one up, just for you) trying to take advantage of new and relatively unknown mediums and oftentimes, the people who buy into their claims have no idea that they know absolutely nothing about traditional marketing. Social mediums are and can be effective, but they must be tied to strategic thinking and integrated into other marketing tactics in order to be effective – and to make the cash register ring. That, after all, is what it's all about.

Absolutely spot-on assessment of the situation – thank you for sharing.

Excellent post, Jason. And you are absolutely correct. That's why many of the so-called social media gurus, experts, jedis and evangelists will ultimately fail. They are not marketers. They are bandwagon jumper oners (made that one up, just for you) trying to take advantage of new and relatively unknown mediums and oftentimes, the people who buy into their claims have no idea that they know absolutely nothing about traditional marketing. Social mediums are and can be effective, but they must be tied to strategic thinking and integrated into other marketing tactics in order to be effective – and to make the cash register ring. That, after all, is what it's all about.

Absolutely spot-on assessment of the situation – thank you for sharing.

Excellent post, Jason. And you are absolutely correct. That's why many of the so-called social media gurus, experts, jedis and evangelists will ultimately fail. They are not marketers. They are bandwagon jumper oners (made that one up, just for you) trying to take advantage of new and relatively unknown mediums and oftentimes, the people who buy into their claims have no idea that they know absolutely nothing about traditional marketing. Social mediums are and can be effective, but they must be tied to strategic thinking and integrated into other marketing tactics in order to be effective – and to make the cash register ring. That, after all, is what it's all about.

Absolutely spot-on assessment of the situation – thank you for sharing.

Excellent post, Jason. And you are absolutely correct. That's why many of the so-called social media gurus, experts, jedis and evangelists will ultimately fail. They are not marketers. They are bandwagon jumper oners (made that one up, just for you) trying to take advantage of new and relatively unknown mediums and oftentimes, the people who buy into their claims have no idea that they know absolutely nothing about traditional marketing. Social mediums are and can be effective, but they must be tied to strategic thinking and integrated into other marketing tactics in order to be effective – and to make the cash register ring. That, after all, is what it's all about.

Absolutely spot-on assessment of the situation – thank you for sharing.

Jason,

You won't hear me arguing your points. Any dollars going towards marketing need to be justified in one way or another. I recently read an article that suggested almost 75% of marketers don't have full-time resources managing web analytics. Many also don't understand them. I think there is a fear of what will be found when studying web analytics. I say this because I've had multiple clients tell me they are concerned they might find something in the data/insights that goes against what their gut has been telling them. They don't want to be called out and have been wrong in their gut instincts.

All 'commercialized' social media should be connected/integrated with a greater online strategy and have a company's key web property as the centerpiece. If 3 out of 4 companies don't have a web analytics resource paying attention to what is happening on their site, they don't know where people are coming in from (Facebook, Twitter, etc.). Or, what they are doing on the site.

My point here is that there are hard metrics around everything social media offers. Marketers must first identify their goals and objectives and have alignment with what success will look like. A dashboard can then be developed to track performance of any marketing effort. You may need to get creative to figure out how to measure certain elements but it can be done. Testing should always be included in order to understand what is working and what is not.

Like I said at the outset of my comments, you won't hear an argument from me when it comes to the topic of accountability and driving ROI. I'm all for it and kudos to you for your post.

Brady

Jason,

You won't hear me arguing your points. Any dollars going towards marketing need to be justified in one way or another. I recently read an article that suggested almost 75% of marketers don't have full-time resources managing web analytics. Many also don't understand them. I think there is a fear of what will be found when studying web analytics. I say this because I've had multiple clients tell me they are concerned they might find something in the data/insights that goes against what their gut has been telling them. They don't want to be called out and have been wrong in their gut instincts.

All 'commercialized' social media should be connected/integrated with a greater online strategy and have a company's key web property as the centerpiece. If 3 out of 4 companies don't have a web analytics resource paying attention to what is happening on their site, they don't know where people are coming in from (Facebook, Twitter, etc.). Or, what they are doing on the site.

My point here is that there are hard metrics around everything social media offers. Marketers must first identify their goals and objectives and have alignment with what success will look like. A dashboard can then be developed to track performance of any marketing effort. You may need to get creative to figure out how to measure certain elements but it can be done. Testing should always be included in order to understand what is working and what is not.

Like I said at the outset of my comments, you won't hear an argument from me when it comes to the topic of accountability and driving ROI. I'm all for it and kudos to you for your post.

Brady

Jason,

You won't hear me arguing your points. Any dollars going towards marketing need to be justified in one way or another. I recently read an article that suggested almost 75% of marketers don't have full-time resources managing web analytics. Many also don't understand them. I think there is a fear of what will be found when studying web analytics. I say this because I've had multiple clients tell me they are concerned they might find something in the data/insights that goes against what their gut has been telling them. They don't want to be called out and have been wrong in their gut instincts.

All 'commercialized' social media should be connected/integrated with a greater online strategy and have a company's key web property as the centerpiece. If 3 out of 4 companies don't have a web analytics resource paying attention to what is happening on their site, they don't know where people are coming in from (Facebook, Twitter, etc.). Or, what they are doing on the site.

My point here is that there are hard metrics around everything social media offers. Marketers must first identify their goals and objectives and have alignment with what success will look like. A dashboard can then be developed to track performance of any marketing effort. You may need to get creative to figure out how to measure certain elements but it can be done. Testing should always be included in order to understand what is working and what is not.

Like I said at the outset of my comments, you won't hear an argument from me when it comes to the topic of accountability and driving ROI. I'm all for it and kudos to you for your post.

Brady

Jason,

You won't hear me arguing your points. Any dollars going towards marketing need to be justified in one way or another. I recently read an article that suggested almost 75% of marketers don't have full-time resources managing web analytics. Many also don't understand them. I think there is a fear of what will be found when studying web analytics. I say this because I've had multiple clients tell me they are concerned they might find something in the data/insights that goes against what their gut has been telling them. They don't want to be called out and have been wrong in their gut instincts.

All 'commercialized' social media should be connected/integrated with a greater online strategy and have a company's key web property as the centerpiece. If 3 out of 4 companies don't have a web analytics resource paying attention to what is happening on their site, they don't know where people are coming in from (Facebook, Twitter, etc.). Or, what they are doing on the site.

My point here is that there are hard metrics around everything social media offers. Marketers must first identify their goals and objectives and have alignment with what success will look like. A dashboard can then be developed to track performance of any marketing effort. You may need to get creative to figure out how to measure certain elements but it can be done. Testing should always be included in order to understand what is working and what is not.

Like I said at the outset of my comments, you won't hear an argument from me when it comes to the topic of accountability and driving ROI. I'm all for it and kudos to you for your post.

Brady

You're right about all of this, Jason. I believe many of the social-media-consultants-in-sheep's-clothing will be replaced by the real wolves of the pack. And of course I agree with Shelly and would take it a step farther to say there is a spectrum of expertise needed to harness the real power of social media. It's a mode of communication. (I'm of course saying this because I use social media as a way to enhance the customer experience and move the needle on retention, cross selling, etc. – my personal expertise.) While there is need for marketers, salespeople, etc. there's also a need to have a wide variety of folks do what they do best and use social media as a tool – not towards an end result of jibber jabber.
Kudos! Great post!

You're right about all of this, Jason. I believe many of the social-media-consultants-in-sheep's-clothing will be replaced by the real wolves of the pack. And of course I agree with Shelly and would take it a step farther to say there is a spectrum of expertise needed to harness the real power of social media. It's a mode of communication. (I'm of course saying this because I use social media as a way to enhance the customer experience and move the needle on retention, cross selling, etc. – my personal expertise.) While there is need for marketers, salespeople, etc. there's also a need to have a wide variety of folks do what they do best and use social media as a tool – not towards an end result of jibber jabber.
Kudos! Great post!

You're right about all of this, Jason. I believe many of the social-media-consultants-in-sheep's-clothing will be replaced by the real wolves of the pack. And of course I agree with Shelly and would take it a step farther to say there is a spectrum of expertise needed to harness the real power of social media. It's a mode of communication. (I'm of course saying this because I use social media as a way to enhance the customer experience and move the needle on retention, cross selling, etc. – my personal expertise.) While there is need for marketers, salespeople, etc. there's also a need to have a wide variety of folks do what they do best and use social media as a tool – not towards an end result of jibber jabber.
Kudos! Great post!

You're right about all of this, Jason. I believe many of the social-media-consultants-in-sheep's-clothing will be replaced by the real wolves of the pack. And of course I agree with Shelly and would take it a step farther to say there is a spectrum of expertise needed to harness the real power of social media. It's a mode of communication. (I'm of course saying this because I use social media as a way to enhance the customer experience and move the needle on retention, cross selling, etc. – my personal expertise.) While there is need for marketers, salespeople, etc. there's also a need to have a wide variety of folks do what they do best and use social media as a tool – not towards an end result of jibber jabber.
Kudos! Great post!

Hi Jason,

I was smiling to myself as I read your post, because I agree with almost everything you wrote. Although I am currently still a student, I hold a relatively more pragmatic view for social media.

Social media definitely has its pros & cons. Even though the effectiveness of social media is frequently being questioned, I see that it can still be effective if it serves a purpose & meets the objectives. But of course, I agree that we all have to make money in the end. I still believe that if utilized well, social media can support the whole thing – brand or campaign, and definitely, there are some cases we all know about.

So, I really like your paragraph that call for action. If we can utilize it the right way and stay focus, it can be a powerful medium.

Thanks for the post. Much appreciated.

Miki Sim (@dooodleslove)

Hi Jason,

I was smiling to myself as I read your post, because I agree with almost everything you wrote. Although I am currently still a student, I hold a relatively more pragmatic view for social media.

Social media definitely has its pros & cons. Even though the effectiveness of social media is frequently being questioned, I see that it can still be effective if it serves a purpose & meets the objectives. But of course, I agree that we all have to make money in the end. I still believe that if utilized well, social media can support the whole thing – brand or campaign, and definitely, there are some cases we all know about.

So, I really like your paragraph that call for action. If we can utilize it the right way and stay focus, it can be a powerful medium.

Thanks for the post. Much appreciated.

Miki Sim (@dooodleslove)

Hi Jason,

I was smiling to myself as I read your post, because I agree with almost everything you wrote. Although I am currently still a student, I hold a relatively more pragmatic view for social media.

Social media definitely has its pros & cons. Even though the effectiveness of social media is frequently being questioned, I see that it can still be effective if it serves a purpose & meets the objectives. But of course, I agree that we all have to make money in the end. I still believe that if utilized well, social media can support the whole thing – brand or campaign, and definitely, there are some cases we all know about.

So, I really like your paragraph that call for action. If we can utilize it the right way and stay focus, it can be a powerful medium.

Thanks for the post. Much appreciated.

Miki Sim (@dooodleslove)

Hi Jason,

I was smiling to myself as I read your post, because I agree with almost everything you wrote. Although I am currently still a student, I hold a relatively more pragmatic view for social media.

Social media definitely has its pros & cons. Even though the effectiveness of social media is frequently being questioned, I see that it can still be effective if it serves a purpose & meets the objectives. But of course, I agree that we all have to make money in the end. I still believe that if utilized well, social media can support the whole thing – brand or campaign, and definitely, there are some cases we all know about.

So, I really like your paragraph that call for action. If we can utilize it the right way and stay focus, it can be a powerful medium.

Thanks for the post. Much appreciated.

Miki Sim (@dooodleslove)

I've been making the same arguments about ghost blogging, something which you've addressed in the past, something that has generated a lot of heat up here in Indianapolis. The purists are free to complain about the authenticity of ghost blogging; my only concern is the authenticity of the check my clients pay me with.

I've been making the same arguments about ghost blogging, something which you've addressed in the past, something that has generated a lot of heat up here in Indianapolis. The purists are free to complain about the authenticity of ghost blogging; my only concern is the authenticity of the check my clients pay me with.

I've been making the same arguments about ghost blogging, something which you've addressed in the past, something that has generated a lot of heat up here in Indianapolis. The purists are free to complain about the authenticity of ghost blogging; my only concern is the authenticity of the check my clients pay me with.

I've been making the same arguments about ghost blogging, something which you've addressed in the past, something that has generated a lot of heat up here in Indianapolis. The purists are free to complain about the authenticity of ghost blogging; my only concern is the authenticity of the check my clients pay me with.

Jason, thanks for stating what should be common knowledge, but isn't. I'd amend things slightly by differentiating between marketing and other forms of communication. The quality of an organization's social media interaction may have impact on reputation measures unrelated to strict sales. We know that companies (for example) with excellent reputations tend to be more successful that those without, but great reputation won't save you if quality plunges, service suffers or you lose touch with your customers.

Social media has the potential to help in addressing those types of issue. It's true that some organizations aren't “selling” products and services — such as a regional Federal Reserve Bank. True, they may be selling expertise or research and seeking influence, but that's not as easy a calculation as impact on sales.

The concept of strategy says that each element of the communication mix has a role, and social media is one element where the role is still being defined.

Jason, thanks for stating what should be common knowledge, but isn't. I'd amend things slightly by differentiating between marketing and other forms of communication. The quality of an organization's social media interaction may have impact on reputation measures unrelated to strict sales. We know that companies (for example) with excellent reputations tend to be more successful that those without, but great reputation won't save you if quality plunges, service suffers or you lose touch with your customers.

Social media has the potential to help in addressing those types of issue. It's true that some organizations aren't “selling” products and services — such as a regional Federal Reserve Bank. True, they may be selling expertise or research and seeking influence, but that's not as easy a calculation as impact on sales.

The concept of strategy says that each element of the communication mix has a role, and social media is one element where the role is still being defined.

Jason, thanks for stating what should be common knowledge, but isn't. I'd amend things slightly by differentiating between marketing and other forms of communication. The quality of an organization's social media interaction may have impact on reputation measures unrelated to strict sales. We know that companies (for example) with excellent reputations tend to be more successful that those without, but great reputation won't save you if quality plunges, service suffers or you lose touch with your customers.

Social media has the potential to help in addressing those types of issue. It's true that some organizations aren't “selling” products and services — such as a regional Federal Reserve Bank. True, they may be selling expertise or research and seeking influence, but that's not as easy a calculation as impact on sales.

The concept of strategy says that each element of the communication mix has a role, and social media is one element where the role is still being defined.

Jason, thanks for stating what should be common knowledge, but isn't. I'd amend things slightly by differentiating between marketing and other forms of communication. The quality of an organization's social media interaction may have impact on reputation measures unrelated to strict sales. We know that companies (for example) with excellent reputations tend to be more successful that those without, but great reputation won't save you if quality plunges, service suffers or you lose touch with your customers.

Social media has the potential to help in addressing those types of issue. It's true that some organizations aren't “selling” products and services — such as a regional Federal Reserve Bank. True, they may be selling expertise or research and seeking influence, but that's not as easy a calculation as impact on sales.

The concept of strategy says that each element of the communication mix has a role, and social media is one element where the role is still being defined.

I suppose what is often lost in the “markets are conversations” homilies is the notion that “What can I do to improve my product” and “Here's what we're doing to entice you to buy” are legitimate topics of conversation. If I don't want to discuss these subject with a company, I'm under no obligation to do so.

The real revolution of social media is that it's a a permission-based dialogue. You don't get to shove ads down my throat (permission based, not interrupt-driven) and you have to listen as well as speak (dialogue, not monologue). That's a revolutionary improvement from the consumer's point of view. You don't have to throw some vow of commercial chastity on top of that to maintain your social media purity. In fact, you shouldn't.

Social media doesn't mean an absence of calls to action. It doesn't mean you don't talk business or sales or product. It means that you're human, honest, and accessible when you have those conversations.

I suppose what is often lost in the “markets are conversations” homilies is the notion that “What can I do to improve my product” and “Here's what we're doing to entice you to buy” are legitimate topics of conversation. If I don't want to discuss these subject with a company, I'm under no obligation to do so.

The real revolution of social media is that it's a a permission-based dialogue. You don't get to shove ads down my throat (permission based, not interrupt-driven) and you have to listen as well as speak (dialogue, not monologue). That's a revolutionary improvement from the consumer's point of view. You don't have to throw some vow of commercial chastity on top of that to maintain your social media purity. In fact, you shouldn't.

Social media doesn't mean an absence of calls to action. It doesn't mean you don't talk business or sales or product. It means that you're human, honest, and accessible when you have those conversations.

I suppose what is often lost in the “markets are conversations” homilies is the notion that “What can I do to improve my product” and “Here's what we're doing to entice you to buy” are legitimate topics of conversation. If I don't want to discuss these subject with a company, I'm under no obligation to do so.

The real revolution of social media is that it's a a permission-based dialogue. You don't get to shove ads down my throat (permission based, not interrupt-driven) and you have to listen as well as speak (dialogue, not monologue). That's a revolutionary improvement from the consumer's point of view. You don't have to throw some vow of commercial chastity on top of that to maintain your social media purity. In fact, you shouldn't.

Social media doesn't mean an absence of calls to action. It doesn't mean you don't talk business or sales or product. It means that you're human, honest, and accessible when you have those conversations.

I suppose what is often lost in the “markets are conversations” homilies is the notion that “What can I do to improve my product” and “Here's what we're doing to entice you to buy” are legitimate topics of conversation. If I don't want to discuss these subject with a company, I'm under no obligation to do so.

The real revolution of social media is that it's a a permission-based dialogue. You don't get to shove ads down my throat (permission based, not interrupt-driven) and you have to listen as well as speak (dialogue, not monologue). That's a revolutionary improvement from the consumer's point of view. You don't have to throw some vow of commercial chastity on top of that to maintain your social media purity. In fact, you shouldn't.

Social media doesn't mean an absence of calls to action. It doesn't mean you don't talk business or sales or product. It means that you're human, honest, and accessible when you have those conversations.

Thanks for this post Jason,

I feel like I differentiate myself with my customers when I DON't go all pie in the sky re: social media.

I want to talk about your business and what you want to achieve FIRST. Then and only then can we design a strategic online marketing / emerging media approach.

Keep your eye on where you want to go, then put the puzzle pieces together to get you there.

I am sharing your post with my current and potential customers to say, “SEE – this is what I am talking about!”

Thanks for this post Jason,

I feel like I differentiate myself with my customers when I DON't go all pie in the sky re: social media.

I want to talk about your business and what you want to achieve FIRST. Then and only then can we design a strategic online marketing / emerging media approach.

Keep your eye on where you want to go, then put the puzzle pieces together to get you there.

I am sharing your post with my current and potential customers to say, “SEE – this is what I am talking about!”

Thanks for this post Jason,

I feel like I differentiate myself with my customers when I DON't go all pie in the sky re: social media.

I want to talk about your business and what you want to achieve FIRST. Then and only then can we design a strategic online marketing / emerging media approach.

Keep your eye on where you want to go, then put the puzzle pieces together to get you there.

I am sharing your post with my current and potential customers to say, “SEE – this is what I am talking about!”

Thanks for this post Jason,

I feel like I differentiate myself with my customers when I DON't go all pie in the sky re: social media.

I want to talk about your business and what you want to achieve FIRST. Then and only then can we design a strategic online marketing / emerging media approach.

Keep your eye on where you want to go, then put the puzzle pieces together to get you there.

I am sharing your post with my current and potential customers to say, “SEE – this is what I am talking about!”

You're right that it is put up or shut up time for social media, but we have to be careful that we don't simply fall back on old ways (like advertising) and piss in the water cooler.

A lot of organizations are dumbfounded by social media because customers have control of the megaphone. It is a dramatically different environment to market in. And that's the rub. You can't just jump in and expect to understand how to deploy SM for marketing right away. A lot of the passive engagement you correctly call out as ineffective is part of the cost of entry. The only way to really understand all these new tools is to use them for a while.

For a lot of companies, 2010 is going to be about how to use SM effectively — to attract and pull customers up the escalator to make an actual purchase. That requires strategy and planning to create marketing campaigns which utilize social media, in contrast to the passive, ad hoc efforts that so far characterize many companies' initial forays into this new world.

You're right that it is put up or shut up time for social media, but we have to be careful that we don't simply fall back on old ways (like advertising) and piss in the water cooler.

A lot of organizations are dumbfounded by social media because customers have control of the megaphone. It is a dramatically different environment to market in. And that's the rub. You can't just jump in and expect to understand how to deploy SM for marketing right away. A lot of the passive engagement you correctly call out as ineffective is part of the cost of entry. The only way to really understand all these new tools is to use them for a while.

For a lot of companies, 2010 is going to be about how to use SM effectively — to attract and pull customers up the escalator to make an actual purchase. That requires strategy and planning to create marketing campaigns which utilize social media, in contrast to the passive, ad hoc efforts that so far characterize many companies' initial forays into this new world.

You're right that it is put up or shut up time for social media, but we have to be careful that we don't simply fall back on old ways (like advertising) and piss in the water cooler.

A lot of organizations are dumbfounded by social media because customers have control of the megaphone. It is a dramatically different environment to market in. And that's the rub. You can't just jump in and expect to understand how to deploy SM for marketing right away. A lot of the passive engagement you correctly call out as ineffective is part of the cost of entry. The only way to really understand all these new tools is to use them for a while.

For a lot of companies, 2010 is going to be about how to use SM effectively — to attract and pull customers up the escalator to make an actual purchase. That requires strategy and planning to create marketing campaigns which utilize social media, in contrast to the passive, ad hoc efforts that so far characterize many companies' initial forays into this new world.

You're right that it is put up or shut up time for social media, but we have to be careful that we don't simply fall back on old ways (like advertising) and piss in the water cooler.

A lot of organizations are dumbfounded by social media because customers have control of the megaphone. It is a dramatically different environment to market in. And that's the rub. You can't just jump in and expect to understand how to deploy SM for marketing right away. A lot of the passive engagement you correctly call out as ineffective is part of the cost of entry. The only way to really understand all these new tools is to use them for a while.

For a lot of companies, 2010 is going to be about how to use SM effectively — to attract and pull customers up the escalator to make an actual purchase. That requires strategy and planning to create marketing campaigns which utilize social media, in contrast to the passive, ad hoc efforts that so far characterize many companies' initial forays into this new world.

Amen, brother. The fact is, people want sales opportunities attached to their social media. There's just a couple rules to it– 1) it can't be all about the sales, unless you are putting together some kind of coupon, insider's special deal site and 2) you have to offer legitimately interesting info, with background and insights that will help the consumers with their decisions, or, connect them to like minded brand enthusiasts. Then when you attach you special offer with a link to ecommerce, you don't seem so obsequious.

Amen, brother. The fact is, people want sales opportunities attached to their social media. There's just a couple rules to it– 1) it can't be all about the sales, unless you are putting together some kind of coupon, insider's special deal site and 2) you have to offer legitimately interesting info, with background and insights that will help the consumers with their decisions, or, connect them to like minded brand enthusiasts. Then when you attach you special offer with a link to ecommerce, you don't seem so obsequious.

Amen, brother. The fact is, people want sales opportunities attached to their social media. There's just a couple rules to it– 1) it can't be all about the sales, unless you are putting together some kind of coupon, insider's special deal site and 2) you have to offer legitimately interesting info, with background and insights that will help the consumers with their decisions, or, connect them to like minded brand enthusiasts. Then when you attach you special offer with a link to ecommerce, you don't seem so obsequious.

Amen, brother. The fact is, people want sales opportunities attached to their social media. There's just a couple rules to it– 1) it can't be all about the sales, unless you are putting together some kind of coupon, insider's special deal site and 2) you have to offer legitimately interesting info, with background and insights that will help the consumers with their decisions, or, connect them to like minded brand enthusiasts. Then when you attach you special offer with a link to ecommerce, you don't seem so obsequious.

I truly believe much of the 'purist' rhetoric has been BS all along. The strength in social media has always been choice and the power has always been on the consumer side. If your business wants to abuse social media… go ahead! You're not going to ruin social media for me, you're only going to taint your brand or your company. As a consumer, I'm free to follow who I want, when I want and converse when I feel like it. I'm empowered to make the choice.

That give businesses a 'free pass' to do whatever they would like to do. That said – they need to live with the repercussions as well. As a consultant working with various companies, that's the value I bring to the table. I can advise them on the mistakes others' have made and how to avoid them. I can provide them with information on how to leverage social media.

Fantastic post, Jason!

I truly believe much of the 'purist' rhetoric has been BS all along. The strength in social media has always been choice and the power has always been on the consumer side. If your business wants to abuse social media… go ahead! You're not going to ruin social media for me, you're only going to taint your brand or your company. As a consumer, I'm free to follow who I want, when I want and engage when I feel like it. I'm empowered to make the choice.

That gives businesses a 'free pass' to do whatever they would like to do. That said – they need to live with the repercussions as well. As a consultant working with various companies, that's the value I bring to the table. I can advise them on the mistakes others' have made and how to avoid them. I can provide them with information on how to leverage social media.

Fantastic post, Jason!

I truly believe much of the 'purist' rhetoric has been BS all along. The strength in social media has always been choice and the power has always been on the consumer side. If your business wants to abuse social media… go ahead! You're not going to ruin social media for me, you're only going to taint your brand or your company. As a consumer, I'm free to follow who I want, when I want and engage when I feel like it. I'm empowered to make the choice.

That gives businesses a 'free pass' to do whatever they would like to do. That said – they need to live with the repercussions as well. As a consultant working with various companies, that's the value I bring to the table. I can advise them on the mistakes others' have made and how to avoid them. I can provide them with information on how to leverage social media.

Fantastic post, Jason!

I truly believe much of the 'purist' rhetoric has been BS all along. The strength in social media has always been choice and the power has always been on the consumer side. If your business wants to abuse social media… go ahead! You're not going to ruin social media for me, you're only going to taint your brand or your company. As a consumer, I'm free to follow who I want, when I want and engage when I feel like it. I'm empowered to make the choice.

That gives businesses a 'free pass' to do whatever they would like to do. That said – they need to live with the repercussions as well. As a consultant working with various companies, that's the value I bring to the table. I can advise them on the mistakes others' have made and how to avoid them. I can provide them with information on how to leverage social media.

Fantastic post, Jason!

Glad to know my consulting firm has been doing it right It's always about the bottom line for our clients

Glad to know my consulting firm has been doing it right It's always about the bottom line for our clients

Glad to know my consulting firm has been doing it right It's always about the bottom line for our clients

Glad to know my consulting firm has been doing it right It's always about the bottom line for our clients

What a great, in-your-face, bound-to-drive-comments point of view. It's a little too much of the “blind men and the elephants” approach, though, assuming that the only business use of the social channel (yeah, it's a channel) is to sell. It's like saying that the only reason people watch TV is to be entertained.

But the core of your message is sound. When social media experts don't base their consultations on the client's business goals and/or don't bother to measure and optimize the various tactics within the overall strategy, it will create a significant social backlash within the client's organization. The baby will be thrown out with the bathwater, and social efforts for that particular business, group, or brand will be stymied for a couple years.

What a great, in-your-face, bound-to-drive-comments point of view. It's a little too much of the “blind men and the elephants” approach, though, assuming that the only business use of the social channel (yeah, it's a channel) is to sell. It's like saying that the only reason people watch TV is to be entertained.

But the core of your message is sound. When social media experts don't base their consultations on the client's business goals and/or don't bother to measure and optimize the various tactics within the overall strategy, it will create a significant social backlash within the client's organization. The baby will be thrown out with the bathwater, and social efforts for that particular business, group, or brand will be stymied for a couple years.

What a great, in-your-face, bound-to-drive-comments point of view. It's a little too much of the “blind men and the elephants” approach, though, assuming that the only business use of the social channel (yeah, it's a channel) is to sell. It's like saying that the only reason people watch TV is to be entertained.

But the core of your message is sound. When social media experts don't base their consultations on the client's business goals and/or don't bother to measure and optimize the various tactics within the overall strategy, it will create a significant social backlash within the client's organization. The baby will be thrown out with the bathwater, and social efforts for that particular business, group, or brand will be stymied for a couple years.

What a great, in-your-face, bound-to-drive-comments point of view. It's a little too much of the “blind men and the elephants” approach, though, assuming that the only business use of the social channel (yeah, it's a channel) is to sell. It's like saying that the only reason people watch TV is to be entertained.

But the core of your message is sound. When social media experts don't base their consultations on the client's business goals and/or don't bother to measure and optimize the various tactics within the overall strategy, it will create a significant social backlash within the client's organization. The baby will be thrown out with the bathwater, and social efforts for that particular business, group, or brand will be stymied for a couple years.

[...] I was delighted to read this excellent post by Jason Fells today: Why Social Media Purists Won’t Last. And I enjoyed his calls to [...]

Beautiful! You're absolutely right. It's time to stop dodging the ROI question with new, shiny, fuzzy and ephemeral metrics and start producing the results companies need, expect and deserve.

There is a difference between value and return-on-investment! Engagement, share of voice, etc all have value but it's nigh impossible to show ROI. Not trying to plug this but, I think this posting explains the POV quite well: http://bit.ly/4x0E32

Beautiful! You're absolutely right. It's time to stop dodging the ROI question with new, shiny, fuzzy and ephemeral metrics and start producing the results companies need, expect and deserve.

There is a difference between value and return-on-investment! Engagement, share of voice, etc all have value but it's nigh impossible to show ROI. Not trying to plug this but, I think this posting explains the POV quite well: http://bit.ly/4x0E32

Beautiful! You're absolutely right. It's time to stop dodging the ROI question with new, shiny, fuzzy and ephemeral metrics and start producing the results companies need, expect and deserve.

There is a difference between value and return-on-investment! Engagement, share of voice, etc all have value but it's nigh impossible to show ROI. Not trying to plug this but, I think this posting explains the POV quite well: http://bit.ly/4x0E32

Beautiful! You're absolutely right. It's time to stop dodging the ROI question with new, shiny, fuzzy and ephemeral metrics and start producing the results companies need, expect and deserve.

There is a difference between value and return-on-investment! Engagement, share of voice, etc all have value but it's nigh impossible to show ROI. Not trying to plug this but, I think this posting explains the POV quite well: http://bit.ly/4x0E32

Thanks for the well thought response, Jay. Nice to see a reaction so well defined and argued.

Honestly, I don't disagree with you. The issue at hand is far more complex than stop selling fluff and start selling product/service. Yes, investing in a social ecosystem around your brand is smart marketing for the reasons you mention. Building conversation points and engagement opportunities for your product or service facilitates the consumer need in this ever-changing marketplace.

My intention with the post (beyond grabbing attention and driving conversation, which is always somewhere on the pecking order for me) was to point to the social media puritanical thinking that serves many as the reason they're listened to by the crowd. Not that the thinking is incorrect, but that there must be some underlying business value you provide beyond the conversation. Yes, the conversation is critical, but so is the transactional.

The idea for this was wrought more out of the needs my clients express rather than what the social media blogosphere wants to hear. Those needs may change over time as the market proves both different and proves profitable for those engaging in it the way you suggest is necessary. But today, here and now, for businesses in need of social media strategy and guidance, there is a need for measures, impacts and results. And if we're not also taking that to bat with us, we're swinging with our hands.

Thanks for the push back.

Thanks for the well thought response, Jay. Nice to see a reaction so well defined and argued.

Honestly, I don't disagree with you. The issue at hand is far more complex than stop selling fluff and start selling product/service. Yes, investing in a social ecosystem around your brand is smart marketing for the reasons you mention. Building conversation points and engagement opportunities for your product or service facilitates the consumer need in this ever-changing marketplace.

My intention with the post (beyond grabbing attention and driving conversation, which is always somewhere on the pecking order for me) was to point to the social media puritanical thinking that serves many as the reason they're listened to by the crowd. Not that the thinking is incorrect, but that there must be some underlying business value you provide beyond the conversation. Yes, the conversation is critical, but so is the transactional.

The idea for this was wrought more out of the needs my clients express rather than what the social media blogosphere wants to hear. Those needs may change over time as the market proves both different and proves profitable for those engaging in it the way you suggest is necessary. But today, here and now, for businesses in need of social media strategy and guidance, there is a need for measures, impacts and results. And if we're not also taking that to bat with us, we're swinging with our hands.

Thanks for the push back.

Thanks for the well thought response, Jay. Nice to see a reaction so well defined and argued.

Honestly, I don't disagree with you. The issue at hand is far more complex than stop selling fluff and start selling product/service. Yes, investing in a social ecosystem around your brand is smart marketing for the reasons you mention. Building conversation points and engagement opportunities for your product or service facilitates the consumer need in this ever-changing marketplace.

My intention with the post (beyond grabbing attention and driving conversation, which is always somewhere on the pecking order for me) was to point to the social media puritanical thinking that serves many as the reason they're listened to by the crowd. Not that the thinking is incorrect, but that there must be some underlying business value you provide beyond the conversation. Yes, the conversation is critical, but so is the transactional.

The idea for this was wrought more out of the needs my clients express rather than what the social media blogosphere wants to hear. Those needs may change over time as the market proves both different and proves profitable for those engaging in it the way you suggest is necessary. But today, here and now, for businesses in need of social media strategy and guidance, there is a need for measures, impacts and results. And if we're not also taking that to bat with us, we're swinging with our hands.

Thanks for the push back.

Thanks for the well thought response, Jay. Nice to see a reaction so well defined and argued.

Honestly, I don't disagree with you. The issue at hand is far more complex than stop selling fluff and start selling product/service. Yes, investing in a social ecosystem around your brand is smart marketing for the reasons you mention. Building conversation points and engagement opportunities for your product or service facilitates the consumer need in this ever-changing marketplace.

My intention with the post (beyond grabbing attention and driving conversation, which is always somewhere on the pecking order for me) was to point to the social media puritanical thinking that serves many as the reason they're listened to by the crowd. Not that the thinking is incorrect, but that there must be some underlying business value you provide beyond the conversation. Yes, the conversation is critical, but so is the transactional.

The idea for this was wrought more out of the needs my clients express rather than what the social media blogosphere wants to hear. Those needs may change over time as the market proves both different and proves profitable for those engaging in it the way you suggest is necessary. But today, here and now, for businesses in need of social media strategy and guidance, there is a need for measures, impacts and results. And if we're not also taking that to bat with us, we're swinging with our hands.

Thanks for the push back.

Thanks, Charlie. Will check it out ASAP.

Thanks, Charlie. Will check it out ASAP.

Thanks, Charlie. Will check it out ASAP.

Thanks, Charlie. Will check it out ASAP.

Not sure I would say social media is a tactic and that's all. But I see what you're saying. Social media strategies can help execute an overall marketing plan and they are one set of strategies/social media is one channel a company can use to accomplish its marketing goals. But social media can certainly be a strategy as well. Thanks, Faye.

Not sure I would say social media is a tactic and that's all. But I see what you're saying. Social media strategies can help execute an overall marketing plan and they are one set of strategies/social media is one channel a company can use to accomplish its marketing goals. But social media can certainly be a strategy as well. Thanks, Faye.

Not sure I would say social media is a tactic and that's all. But I see what you're saying. Social media strategies can help execute an overall marketing plan and they are one set of strategies/social media is one channel a company can use to accomplish its marketing goals. But social media can certainly be a strategy as well. Thanks, Faye.

Not sure I would say social media is a tactic and that's all. But I see what you're saying. Social media strategies can help execute an overall marketing plan and they are one set of strategies/social media is one channel a company can use to accomplish its marketing goals. But social media can certainly be a strategy as well. Thanks, Faye.

I like it. Though I always kinda thought Townsend was a little on the soft side. Heh. Gimme an Ozzy or somethin' there. Heh. Thanks. Well said.

I like it. Though I always kinda thought Townsend was a little on the soft side. Heh. Gimme an Ozzy or somethin' there. Heh. Thanks. Well said.

I like it. Though I always kinda thought Townsend was a little on the soft side. Heh. Gimme an Ozzy or somethin' there. Heh. Thanks. Well said.

I like it. Though I always kinda thought Townsend was a little on the soft side. Heh. Gimme an Ozzy or somethin' there. Heh. Thanks. Well said.

Nicely played. It is true that there are goals other than selling things, but driving business … whatever that business may be … is the bottom line for any client, profit-driven or otherwise. Thanks Red.

Nicely played. It is true that there are goals other than selling things, but driving business … whatever that business may be … is the bottom line for any client, profit-driven or otherwise. Thanks Red.

Nicely played. It is true that there are goals other than selling things, but driving business … whatever that business may be … is the bottom line for any client, profit-driven or otherwise. Thanks Red.

Nicely played. It is true that there are goals other than selling things, but driving business … whatever that business may be … is the bottom line for any client, profit-driven or otherwise. Thanks Red.

Thanks Eric. Well said.

Thanks Eric. Well said.

Thanks Eric. Well said.

Thanks Eric. Well said.

Very useful response Jim. I love the Sales 101 lesson and know many of us on the marketing/PR/communications side that aren't focused directly on sales need to hear it more often as a reminder, if nothing else.

I think the world we know has been led to believe sales is spammy, annoying and irrelevant because so many people have done it so poorly for so long. Car folks get the brunt end of that hate, but it's no different in many industries. Good salespeople never seem like they're selling. I would equate that quality to good social media marketers. You never realize they're connecting you to an idea, product or service. They're just someone you communicate with online who is helpful and provides value to the relationship.

But you still have to measure their worth with what kind of business they bring you. And that's as parallel to sales as anything in the social realm.

Thanks my friend. Good thoughts.

Very useful response Jim. I love the Sales 101 lesson and know many of us on the marketing/PR/communications side that aren't focused directly on sales need to hear it more often as a reminder, if nothing else.

I think the world we know has been led to believe sales is spammy, annoying and irrelevant because so many people have done it so poorly for so long. Car folks get the brunt end of that hate, but it's no different in many industries. Good salespeople never seem like they're selling. I would equate that quality to good social media marketers. You never realize they're connecting you to an idea, product or service. They're just someone you communicate with online who is helpful and provides value to the relationship.

But you still have to measure their worth with what kind of business they bring you. And that's as parallel to sales as anything in the social realm.

Thanks my friend. Good thoughts.

Very useful response Jim. I love the Sales 101 lesson and know many of us on the marketing/PR/communications side that aren't focused directly on sales need to hear it more often as a reminder, if nothing else.

I think the world we know has been led to believe sales is spammy, annoying and irrelevant because so many people have done it so poorly for so long. Car folks get the brunt end of that hate, but it's no different in many industries. Good salespeople never seem like they're selling. I would equate that quality to good social media marketers. You never realize they're connecting you to an idea, product or service. They're just someone you communicate with online who is helpful and provides value to the relationship.

But you still have to measure their worth with what kind of business they bring you. And that's as parallel to sales as anything in the social realm.

Thanks my friend. Good thoughts.

Very useful response Jim. I love the Sales 101 lesson and know many of us on the marketing/PR/communications side that aren't focused directly on sales need to hear it more often as a reminder, if nothing else.

I think the world we know has been led to believe sales is spammy, annoying and irrelevant because so many people have done it so poorly for so long. Car folks get the brunt end of that hate, but it's no different in many industries. Good salespeople never seem like they're selling. I would equate that quality to good social media marketers. You never realize they're connecting you to an idea, product or service. They're just someone you communicate with online who is helpful and provides value to the relationship.

But you still have to measure their worth with what kind of business they bring you. And that's as parallel to sales as anything in the social realm.

Thanks my friend. Good thoughts.

The purists lose, and business wins. Always. Hence why Spam is still so pervasive. Because it works.

Some companies can even just let their consumers lead the social cause. Look at Ford, no blogs. Look at Apple, no social.

Great points Jason. When it comes to Business, it comes down to what moves the needle. If it is clear that the pretty, clean, transparent bubble of social media that we all love does not do that, then businesses could care less.

I believe in the end though, the transparency and openness of social media will bleed into every company's marketing. In one way or another. It just might be a bit longer than we prefer.

The purists lose, and business wins. Always. Hence why Spam is still so pervasive. Because it works.

Some companies can even just let their consumers lead the social cause. Look at Ford, no blogs. Look at Apple, no social.

Great points Jason. When it comes to Business, it comes down to what moves the needle. If it is clear that the pretty, clean, transparent bubble of social media that we all love does not do that, then businesses could care less.

I believe in the end though, the transparency and openness of social media will bleed into every company's marketing. In one way or another. It just might be a bit longer than we prefer.

The purists lose, and business wins. Always. Hence why Spam is still so pervasive. Because it works.

Some companies can even just let their consumers lead the social cause. Look at Ford, no blogs. Look at Apple, no social.

Great points Jason. When it comes to Business, it comes down to what moves the needle. If it is clear that the pretty, clean, transparent bubble of social media that we all love does not do that, then businesses could care less.

I believe in the end though, the transparency and openness of social media will bleed into every company's marketing. In one way or another. It just might be a bit longer than we prefer.

The purists lose, and business wins. Always. Hence why Spam is still so pervasive. Because it works.

Some companies can even just let their consumers lead the social cause. Look at Ford, no blogs. Look at Apple, no social.

Great points Jason. When it comes to Business, it comes down to what moves the needle. If it is clear that the pretty, clean, transparent bubble of social media that we all love does not do that, then businesses could care less.

I believe in the end though, the transparency and openness of social media will bleed into every company's marketing. In one way or another. It just might be a bit longer than we prefer.

Thanks Shelly. I think “bandwagon jumper oners” is my new favorite phrase. Well played.

I think you hit upon a good notion there. I can't count the number of social media guru/expert/strategist/managers/whatevers are our there whose sole experience in being at said level for brands and companies is that they have a blog. You see it a lot of mommy bloggers, too. They got pitched by a few big companies and suddenly started charging for their time and became “consultants.” Few of them have marketing backgrounds or qualifications. Some of them have made a good living out of that scenario and have been resourceful enough to get smart and prove worth the investment, sure. But there are a lot of them out there who just say, “Gimme $5K and I'll have all my mommy friends write good stuff about your brand.”

Not trying to pick on the moms. There are good ones out there who are consultants. There are good bloggers out there who know better, too. And there are plenty of those consultant types who aren't mommy bloggers or even women as well. That example just came to mind. (I'm sure someone will call me names for pointing it out that way. Wheeee.)

Thanks for the thoughts!

Thanks Shelly. I think “bandwagon jumper oners” is my new favorite phrase. Well played.

I think you hit upon a good notion there. I can't count the number of social media guru/expert/strategist/managers/whatevers are our there whose sole experience in being at said level for brands and companies is that they have a blog. You see it a lot of mommy bloggers, too. They got pitched by a few big companies and suddenly started charging for their time and became “consultants.” Few of them have marketing backgrounds or qualifications. Some of them have made a good living out of that scenario and have been resourceful enough to get smart and prove worth the investment, sure. But there are a lot of them out there who just say, “Gimme $5K and I'll have all my mommy friends write good stuff about your brand.”

Not trying to pick on the moms. There are good ones out there who are consultants. There are good bloggers out there who know better, too. And there are plenty of those consultant types who aren't mommy bloggers or even women as well. That example just came to mind. (I'm sure someone will call me names for pointing it out that way. Wheeee.)

Thanks for the thoughts!

Thanks Shelly. I think “bandwagon jumper oners” is my new favorite phrase. Well played.

I think you hit upon a good notion there. I can't count the number of social media guru/expert/strategist/managers/whatevers are our there whose sole experience in being at said level for brands and companies is that they have a blog. You see it a lot of mommy bloggers, too. They got pitched by a few big companies and suddenly started charging for their time and became “consultants.” Few of them have marketing backgrounds or qualifications. Some of them have made a good living out of that scenario and have been resourceful enough to get smart and prove worth the investment, sure. But there are a lot of them out there who just say, “Gimme $5K and I'll have all my mommy friends write good stuff about your brand.”

Not trying to pick on the moms. There are good ones out there who are consultants. There are good bloggers out there who know better, too. And there are plenty of those consultant types who aren't mommy bloggers or even women as well. That example just came to mind. (I'm sure someone will call me names for pointing it out that way. Wheeee.)

Thanks for the thoughts!

Thanks Shelly. I think “bandwagon jumper oners” is my new favorite phrase. Well played.

I think you hit upon a good notion there. I can't count the number of social media guru/expert/strategist/managers/whatevers are our there whose sole experience in being at said level for brands and companies is that they have a blog. You see it a lot of mommy bloggers, too. They got pitched by a few big companies and suddenly started charging for their time and became “consultants.” Few of them have marketing backgrounds or qualifications. Some of them have made a good living out of that scenario and have been resourceful enough to get smart and prove worth the investment, sure. But there are a lot of them out there who just say, “Gimme $5K and I'll have all my mommy friends write good stuff about your brand.”

Not trying to pick on the moms. There are good ones out there who are consultants. There are good bloggers out there who know better, too. And there are plenty of those consultant types who aren't mommy bloggers or even women as well. That example just came to mind. (I'm sure someone will call me names for pointing it out that way. Wheeee.)

Thanks for the thoughts!

Well put – always amazes me how so many people fail to focus on growing the bottom line as a way of driving change and achievement in big companies. You might be interested in this blog post I wrote in a similar vein around why companies shouldn't build online communities – http://wp.me/plxkn-95 – I think you'll see some similar thoughts in it:)

Best Regards

Boris Pluskowski
http://www.completeinnovator.com

Well put – always amazes me how so many people fail to focus on growing the bottom line as a way of driving change and achievement in big companies. You might be interested in this blog post I wrote in a similar vein around why companies shouldn't build online communities – http://wp.me/plxkn-95 – I think you'll see some similar thoughts in it:)

Best Regards

Boris Pluskowski
http://www.completeinnovator.com

Well put – always amazes me how so many people fail to focus on growing the bottom line as a way of driving change and achievement in big companies. You might be interested in this blog post I wrote in a similar vein around why companies shouldn't build online communities – http://wp.me/plxkn-95 – I think you'll see some similar thoughts in it:)

Best Regards

Boris Pluskowski
http://www.completeinnovator.com

Well put – always amazes me how so many people fail to focus on growing the bottom line as a way of driving change and achievement in big companies. You might be interested in this blog post I wrote in a similar vein around why companies shouldn't build online communities – http://wp.me/plxkn-95 – I think you'll see some similar thoughts in it:)

Best Regards

Boris Pluskowski
http://www.completeinnovator.com

Thanks Brady. Appreciate the verification and additional thoughts!

Thanks Brady. Appreciate the verification and additional thoughts!

Thanks Brady. Appreciate the verification and additional thoughts!

Thanks Brady. Appreciate the verification and additional thoughts!

Much appreciated Jeannie. And thanks for the examples of doing something other than direct sales that makes social media meaningful. Keep up the good work.